New and bewildered

[Palisadeur]

If I am your kid, I'll train really hard to better myself and beat those people the next time I see them on the strip, with class of course.

Right on.
When I first started fencing I realised that, like any 1-on-1 sport, there were some unsporting dAHOOGA!heads.
To keep my own sanity and self-confidence whilst fencing non-electric against those that wouldn't acknowledge hits, I kept a mental tally of what the actual score would be.
Whether or not i did end up winning/losing the 5-point bout with 12-5 remains debatable, but here i am still fencing and having fun every time.

I'm a little uncomfortable stating the club's name. I'm sure I'll have to see these people again, and I don't want to cause contention between clubs.

Wise.
Like it or not, there are always politics within these kinds of sporting organisations.

...They were both black carded, the kid was lost without his coach...

Your coach took a bullet for you! That's so cool.

4stinkydogs, good for you doing some research on this, what you've witnessed is rare and detestable - I hope you and your daughter stick with this noble sport.

pd.

p.s. do the 4 stinky dogs just need a bath, or is it a dietary thing?

[Bonehead]

My coach came to me during break (I had lost me lead when I started to get frustrated) and he said, "Don't pay attention to me, just fence like you know how." Then he started "giving it back" to the other coach. They were both black carded, the kid was lost without his coach, and ended up crying when I came back to win. (Coach did not normally strip coach, so I was more used to being "on my own.")

This is sooooo cool. I may be misunderstanding, since your post had a lot of remorse in it, but man that's wicked.

Your coach purposely got black carded to get rid of an opposing coach who was acting like a jerk? Sounds like he went to bat for you.

[Allen Evans]

Your coach purposely got black carded to get rid of an opposing coach who was acting like a jerk? Sounds like he went to bat for you.

Ugh. How helpful is this for that coach's other students? Or the student who won and had more DE's to fence?

And what sort of example is this for everyone else in the room? Do clubs start bringing a surplus of coaches to tournaments so they can "go nuclear" against the coaches from the other clubs?

This is not behavior to emulate.

A

[Bonehead]

Ugh. How helpful is this for that coach's other students? Or the student who won and had more DE's to fence?

And what sort of example is this for everyone else in the room? Do clubs start bringing a surplus of coaches to tournaments so they can "go nuclear" against the coaches from the other clubs?

This is not behavior to emulate.

Yes yes, eye for an eye, whole world blind, and all that. Yes, hopefully there isn't another student there that really needed this coach to watch the DE. And finally hopefully most of people who see the situation would have some sense of what was actually happening.

There are any numerous better outcomes that would have been preferable. Her coach could have just talked to the other coach and reasoned until they had a better understanding for each other. Her coach could have pleaded with the ref to do something. Maybe gone to the DT if necessary. The Ref could of done something about the other coach way earlier.

But the one that would leave a bitter taste in my mouth would be my coach just telling me to 'ignore it'.

Maybe even that's the right thing to do. This might teach me to be a better fencer who is comfortable ignoring the screams of other coaches (truth be told an opposing coach like that wouldn't really be a big deal to me). But it's just to easy for her coach to say that, to say 'life sucks there's nothing anyone can do about it'. When someone tells me this sort of thing I wonder; how much of it is 'life is unfair', and how much of it is 'I don't care enough about this to get involved myself'.

Instead he demonstrated that he cares enough about his fencers that he's willing to get black carded to try to ensure a fair bout for them. Whether or not it was the best thing to do, I would be flattered that my coach cares that much about me having a fair bout.

[Lady Quindecim]

"How sad It's very sad to see
to see The ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquility
Become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies
To slug it out with glee"

Rep to whomever can name that song.

[Goldgar]

"How sad It's very sad to see
to see The ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquility
Become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies
To slug it out with glee"

Rep to whomever can name that song.

"Quartet". But I admit I had to look it up.

[Foil.Leicester]

This is a slight digression, but I feel relevant nonetheless and relates to a lot of issues raised in this thread.

Whenever I hear these stories, I always think it highlights an under-lying issue which really isn't being addressed.

Refereeing.

The reason that coaches and clubs can act like this is because referees are not properly educated. Sure its great to have everything phrased correctly, but new and young referees NEED to be taught how to deal with situations and people like this.

What I've started to feel is that you're not judged on how perfect your calls are (obviously the vast majority should be right!) but how I MANAGE the piste. That is an important aspect which doesn't isn't covered in nearly enough detail in refereeing courses.

Even if someone doesn't agree with my call, I can subdue the situation by how I deal with them. That doesn't necessarily mean ignoring them, and that doesn't necessarily mean explaining in minute detail why I phrased X hit.

In a situation where you've got off-piste abuse coming towards the referee or another fencer, referees need to feel like they've got support, be it from the Bout Committee, other referees or even the USFA itself. Only with this support can referees properly manage a piste, they need to know they have the power to tell coaches and supporters to shut the hell up, and this will be upheld.

What I personally would have done for these coaches or fencers is to halt the match, call them over to me and explain to them quite clearly that I would not tolerate that sort of language or behaviour on my piste and if they did it again they would be removed from the hall. This would be followed by a Yellow Card for all involved.

I was never taught any of this in Britain either, but I learned it through a combination of other qualifications like Coaching or un-related to fencing.

Referees need to start being trained more completely, not just at FIE or national level, but right from the very beginning. In addition to this I also feel that a more structured organisation needs to be put in place to give support to upcoming referees. This will help create much stronger and more professional referees and help to clamp down on piste-side intimidation.