Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

BugabooX · 01-10-2003, 12:31 PM

Just curious: How many of you actually try to play mind games with your opponents when you're not fencing?

An associate recently said it really bugged her when her opponent took a long time to prep for a bout -- then she realized, "Hey, I can do that, too," and would sometimes fiddle with her own gear after the other guy stepped to the line. One-upsmanship, I suppose.

Me? I figure that sometimes the strongest response is to totally ignore what the other guy is doing. I've got more appropriate things to focus on.

I'd like to hear your feedback, though.

Catal · 01-10-2003, 12:57 PM

I carefully choose who I psyche out. Quite a few fencers get upset over every little thing, and I'd just as soon not see someone have a **** fit on the piste. There are too many postal worker type fencers out there who blow a fuse when you score on them; imagine someone playing mind games on Golubitsky, or Cliff Bayer... buncha borderline psychopaths.

Off the piste, I'm friendly enough. I don't play games with their heads; it all seems more personal, more rude to mess around with people when they're right there with you.

a517dogg · 01-11-2003, 01:35 AM

on the strip anything goes, from mocking my opponent's style of fencing to tying my shoes at strategic moments, to not being ready en garde, etc etc etc.

i have a little list

tee hee

and if the opponent blows his cool, you use that against him. epee is thinking mans game, how does he think to win when he is thinking to only hit me?

Manjusri · 01-13-2003, 07:38 PM

I love the mental aspect of the sport, my entire demeanor on the strip is intended to demoralize my opponent, to obstruct his every intention and chip away at his confidence. But I try very hard to keep myself from doing this with anything but proper fencing actions. It just feels like poor sportsmanship to use anything but the game itself to achieve your victory. I have a pretty encompassing definition of the game, but stalling tactics, brutality, and verbal barbs do not fall within it.

After all, the reason I enjoy the sport, is the comradery developed through competition. The competitors I respect the most are those who can give their all in a bout, and still have a smile and firm handshake in defeat.

Nebuchadnezzar · 01-14-2003, 08:55 PM

I'm all for defeating your opponent with good psychology,i mean honestly that's half the game. If all fencing is is simply fine tuned reacting (or not so fine tuned reacting) it wouldn't really be as wonderful of a sport. This psychology, however, should be kept on the strip. A good fencer won't need to play mind games with his opponent before the bout. Psyching someone out before a bout, to me, is just subtle cheating with a different label.

Catal · 01-14-2003, 10:07 PM

Bah, you're a foilist- what do you know?

Inquartata · 01-14-2003, 10:27 PM

Reliance upon this sort of thing would seem to me to speak in mute testimony to the fact that the user can't get the job done with fencing skills alone. An admission of incompetence, in other words. Even if they're effective, I find all of these tactics either sad, funny or quasi-dishonorable, depending upon my mood...

Nebuchadnezzar · 01-14-2003, 10:49 PM

Now I haven't been fencing for very long, only a year, but wouldn't an experianced fencer realize his opponent was trying to psych him out. If I noticed somebody doing that to me I'd feel more confident on the strip, knowing that my opponents uses petty tricks to make up for his lack in skill.

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a517dogg
on the strip anything goes, from mocking my opponent's style of fencing to tying my shoes at strategic moments, to not being ready en garde, etc etc etc.

i have a little list

tee hee

and if the opponent blows his cool, you use that against him. epee is thinking mans game, how does he think to win when he is thinking to only hit me?

agreed and seconded.

-m

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manjusri
I have a pretty encompassing definition of the game, but stalling tactics, brutality, and verbal barbs do not fall within it.

Definitely not brutality (with retaliation an arguable exception), some verbal barbs, but stalling tactics are DEFINITELY part of the game (IMO).

-m

Nebuchadnezzar · 01-14-2003, 11:05 PM

I have repeatedly heard fencing called the gentleman's sport. It has always been described and taught to me as a sport and art in which honor is key. I have also been taught to increase my fencing skill, not my petty tricks to make up for my lack of skill. If you need a "list" then you should go practice your fencing cause you must be terrible. A real fencer doesn't need to intimidate his opponent before the bout. There is a time and place for everything.

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inquartata
Reliance upon this sort of thing would seem to me to speak in mute testimony to the fact that the user can't get the job done with fencing skills alone. An admission of incompetence, in other words. Even if they're effective, I find all of these tactics either sad, funny or quasi-dishonorable, depending upon my mood...

who said he was relying on it? using and relying are two very different things.

-m

Nebuchadnezzar · 01-14-2003, 11:10 PM

If you don't rely on it and all it does is make up for your apparent lack in skill why not stop and fence with honor.

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar
I have repeatedly heard fencing called the gentleman's sport. It has always been described and taught to me as a sport and art in which honor is key. I have also been taught to increase my fencing skill, not my petty tricks to make up for my lack of skill. If you need a "list" then you should go practice your fencing cause you must be terrible. A real fencer doesn't need to intimidate his opponent before the bout. There is a time and place for everything.

Well, I certainly don't practice my psych game, but I do use it. EVERYBODY does. the difference is that some don't know they use it, some know but won't admit it, and some are open about it.

Are you in NE Div?? noticed you have a quote from Z on your sig.

-m

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 11:15 PM

Fencing is a head game. it is all about getting into your opponents head. If you can take him out of his game, all the better. You can do this two ways: by the way you fence him and through your own behavior.

by the way, the better fencers won't be phased by head games. why not? because they are used to it. why are they used to it? because its part of the game. If you ARE coached by Z, ask him what he thinks of head games. While you're at it, ask him to show you his bar chicken.

-m

Nebuchadnezzar · 01-14-2003, 11:22 PM

Just because"everybody" does it doesn't mean that it's alright. I used to do it... i still do but i'm trying to break away from that.

(btw i am coached by Z and i'm from NE, are you?)

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar
Just because"everybody" does it doesn't mean that it's alright. I used to do it... i still do but i'm trying to break away from that.

(btw i am coached by Z and i'm from NE, are you?)

like I said, ask Z. I haven't talked about it with him, but I'm fairly certain he'll think its part of the game, not to be relied upon (obviously), but part of the game, nonetheless. btw, if you are old enough, bring a bottle of Lagavulin to discuss it over.

-m

epeemike81 · 01-14-2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar
If you need a "list" then you should go practice your fencing cause you must be terrible.

do you realize that you (a first year fencer) just accused a517dogg (an A from your area) of being terrible???? just found that amusing......

-m

Inquartata · 01-14-2003, 11:45 PM

No, "everybody" doesn't do it. I for one do not, and even a single exception invalidates the "everybody".

I would rather win, or lose, on fencing ability alone. I would rather lose to the better fencer than "win" because I was able to intimidate or irk or rattle him, despite having lesser skills.

If this sort of thing is integral to your game; if you use it consciously, deliberately and in most every bout; if you fall back on it when losing; then you are relying upon it to remedy a lack in your fencing. Using, relying upon, call it what you will.

Is it rampant? Yes. Does the fact that "everyone does it" justify it? Not to me. YMMV.

Nebuchadnezzar · 01-14-2003, 11:46 PM

I'm completely aware of what i did and stand by it. I'm not about to be intimidated by someone i've never met just because he's fenced longer than me.

BTW: according to Zoran he left the olympic arena because he couldn't stand all of the politics and "headgames" as you call it.