San Jose SYC

[joralemon]

Does anyone know how to see the results from this weekends SYC in San Jose?

[Guided by Wire]

http://home.earthlink.net/~midisandi...0/sycwest.html

[oso97]

Any reason I wonder not to use FRED?

[RITFencing]

Any reason I wonder not to use FRED?

Concern has been expressed by some involved over the ability of predators to stalk children who fence using askfred. I'm not stating my own opinion here, just what I've been told.

[oso97]

As oppoosed to posting birth years and member numbers through the live results option they used in FT? FRED hides those.

Besides, the event is over.

[AllezCat]

Midi sent me a whole list of reasons why they use 123Signup instead of FRED for preregistration. I may not agree with them, but they're at least rational, not just silly fears about privacy or something.

They all had to do with preregistration though, nothing about publishing results afterward. And since they used FT for everything, the upload should be pretty straightforward...

[edew]

Maybe you or Midi can share those reasons here or directly with FRED administrator. If they're good reasons and ideas, I don't see why FRED can't incorporate them. If not, then...

[mgriffin]

Maybe you or Midi can share those reasons here or directly with FRED administrator. If they're good reasons and ideas, I don't see why FRED can't incorporate them. If not, then...

Thanks, they have been shared with the "FRED administrator". I know because I was the person who shared them with said administrator. Quite rightly, the "FRED administrator" pointed out that FRED offers a service that individuals are welcome to use or not use, depending on their preferences. He seems to embrace the concept of a free market economy and did not seem to take offense at this event not being run using the service.

As to those reasons, some of them are out of the "FRED adminstrator's" control. I don't think that they are relevant to the fencing community in general. As to RIT's comments, which are largely a mishmash of several points but in no coherent or correct sequence, I will state again that I was mis-informed about FRED and security issues, but after the "FRED administrator" patiently explained how wrong my conclusions were, I was apologetic and much better educated about the level of security under which FRED operates. I am still sorry for my jumping to conclusions without checking with the sources. I think the "FRED adminstrator" very graciously accepted my personal apology at that time; here's my public one.

As organizers of the competition, we have been happy with the level of service provided by 123Signup (which is NOT the same as saying we don't like FRED) 123Signup has been good to us and we wanted to be loyal to them. Finally, for our ease, we've chosen to use what we are all comfortable using to run the competition (that's important as all the people who run the SYC are volunteers who give generously of their time and talents).

And now a personal note: Thank you to all the 2010 Paul Pesthy Western Super Youth Circuit volunteers! You were great!

[dberke]

As organizers of the competition, we have been happy with the level of ervice provided by 123Signup (which is NOT the same as saying we don't like FRED) 123Signup has been good to us and we wanted to be loyal to them. Finally, for our ease, we've chosen to use what we are all comfortable using to run the competition (that's important as all the people who run the SYC are volunteers who give generously of their time and talents).

The sentence I bolded above is, in my opinion, a problem with how many tournament organizers approach their job. They focus on what is convenient for them rather than on what meets the customer's needs.

While 123Signup may be a fine system (I've never used it), does it meet the expectations of the customers (i.e. the fencers), especially when compared to AskFRED? Does it provide the fencers with the ability to see the current registration list (with classifications so they can gauge the strength of the tournament before making travel plans)? Does it archive the results in a way that fencers/coaches/parents can review the results easily and/or mine the data for analysis?

I ask these questions because it is clear that these kinds of capabilities, all of which are provided by AskFRED, are features the fencers want and value. AskFRED is the de facto standard for many reasons, and to use a different system is inconvenient for them as customers. Even if 123Signup provides all the features that AskFRED does (which I suspect it doesn't), the fact that the results don't feed into AskFRED's database is a significant drawback.

Tournament organizers need to put the needs of their customers first. If that makes things less convenient for them, they should accept that as part of the job and re-evaluate their processes to understand why it's not as convenient. By putting their convenience and needs first, I think that sets a bad precedent.

I don't mean this to be an attack on the SYC organizers - I've heard through various channels that it was a great event. But I also think that it may be worth questioning these kinds of decisions... I see the question "why don't they use AskFRED?" arise after every event that doesn't use AskFRED - that should be telling you something.

Dan

[oso97]

Does it archive the results in a way that fencers/coaches/parents can review the results easily and/or mine the data for analysis?

This is definitely the most important point. Sure, use what ever system you like for taking registrations, but to not then export the data onto FRED is puzzling. Its like saying "No, we DON'T want everyone to quickly and easily see the results of the tournament."

[teacup]

123signup did not allow parents to sign up more than one child using the same email address. This was an inconvenience.

[edew]

Now, what's the purpose of that?

[darius]

I bet they use 'email' as the database key. Whoops!

[Asibov Sobelo]

With FRED, I registered my son under my email address. When my daughter started fencing this year, it wouldn't let me use the same address so I had to use my work email. That's a bit inconvenient as well.

[teacup]

The USFA online membership system may only allow one email address per person too.

[peet]

With FRED, I registered my son under my email address. When my daughter started fencing this year, it wouldn't let me use the same address so I had to use my work email. That's a bit inconvenient as well.

In FRED you can preregister any number of fencers with the same email address.

What you can't do is create two FRED membership accounts (username and password) with the same email address. This is primarily because the password reset process works with your email address. If two membership accounts had the same email address, how would FRED know which member needs the password reset?

Solution:
If you have several kids you want to preregister for tournaments with the same email address, just don't make a membership account for them (at least not for more than one of them). FRED membership is not required to use the main features of the site (preregister for tournaments, pay for them, appear in results).

-p