Weapon malfunction

[Lee Yue Yang]

Hi all.My foil has malfunctioned today and I'm very puzzled as to why.Here's what happened.I plugged the body wire into the foil but the off-target light keeps coming on.So,I took the foil apart but the wire was okay.But later,the tip came out.So what could have happened?Thanks.

Lee

[Purple Fencer]

ery difficult to say with that information.

Was it going off when you were standing still or moving?
Did you check your body cord for breaks or loose connections?
Did you change weapons to see if it WAS the weapon?
Did you switch sides to see if it was the reel?

The first rule of problem solving is to identify the locality of the problem....otherside you're just grasping at straws.

The more detail you can provide, the better answer we can give you.

[Lee Yue Yang]

It was going off when I was just standing still.I've changed a body cord and also a weapon.The other weapon worked fine.I also passed my weapon to my opponent to see if it's the reel but the off target light came on too.Later,I went to test the foil with a test box and I got no response.

Lee

[Purple Fencer]

Okay! Now we're getting somewhere!

Looks like you definitely determined the problem id in the weapon. The problem here is the electrical signal's not making the complete circuit up the wire and back down the blade. A few more questions to help narrow it down further...

You didn't say if the wire had come out of the socket or was broken off At the socket...

Are all the connections tight, from the grip up to the barrel?

In your first post you said the tip came out...do you mean the actual point you plce on target or the small metal cap at the end of the wire that the spring rests against?

Are you in the habit of spinning your tip?

Have you sanded the ends of the spring recently?

Plug the weapon into a test box. Take the point and spring out, insert a jeweler's scerwdriver or other skinny piece of of metal into the barell and set it against the wire cap, then lean it over so it's touching the inside of the barell (mimicing the screw's job of completing the circuit). Do you get a light on the box or not?

I've got a few suspicions on what's wrong, but I'll have a better idea once you respond to this post.

[Lee Yue Yang]

I'm very certain that the wire is okay.Not broken or anything.As for connections,I also very certain that it's tight.When I said the tip came out,I meant the part which is supposed to be depressed.I do not have the habit of spinning my tip but I did so once recently.And no,I have not sanded the tip.I do not have a test box with me now,but I can do the testing when I get back to school.Sorry if my answers are not very clear because I realy do not know much about how the weapon is supposed to work.Thanks alot for your help.

Lee

[Purple Fencer]

OK...based on the info you gave me, here are the two things that might be wrong.

#1 Corrosion has built up on the ends of the spring. When two different metals are in contact there will be some small chemical reaction...it's called electrolitic corrosion. You will not be able to see it onthe spring, but get some sandpaper and sand BOTH ends of the spring to remove the corrosion. It's not going to be a whole lot, but it's often enough to block the signal.

#2 If the weapon still does not work, try the trick with the screwdriver. If, after all of this, you do NOT get a light when you short the wire cap to the barrel, there could be a break in the wire - either where the barrel screws on to the foil (the wire may have slipped out of the channel and gotton caught in the threads. When you tighten the barrel down, it cuts the wire), or the plastic wire cup may have spun with the tip and tristed the wire until it broke (tends to happen when the spring fits a litte too tightly into the cup), OR the solder joint between the wire cap and the end of the actual wire fractured.


If you hook to the box and get NO light no matter how you pusk down the ti or otherwise manipulate the point assembly around, there's probably a complete break...rewire time.

If you haven't done so, back out the screws, pull out the tip and remove the spring. if the wires actually broken at the underside of the cup, the cup should either come out with the spring or it'll fall out if you turn the barell open end down.

I haven't looked at your profile yet, and I can't see it from the reply screen...are you in L.A.? I'd be happy to show you how to wire a weapon and diagnose simpe problems. If you're in the SoCal area at all, check the appearances portion of my website. maybe we can hook up at a divisional or high school event.

Let us know what happens.

[Purple Fencer]

Whoops! Never mind...you're in Sinapore...just a LITTLE bit out of the way!

[Lee Yue Yang]

Thanks alot for your help Purple Fencer.I'll try all that you've suggested.But if I still can't get it to work,then I'll have to pass it on to my coach(which would mean instant death )Thanks again.

Lee

[Lee Yue Yang]

I just tried taking out the tip to sand the spring but in the end,I could'nt even find one!When you say spring,do you mean the ordinary spring or something else?I think it was like this since I received it from my coach.Is it alright without a spring?Thanks.

Lee

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by Lee Yue Yang
I just tried taking out the tip to sand the spring but in the end,I could'nt even find one!When you say spring,do you mean the ordinary spring or something else?I think it was like this since I received it from my coach.Is it alright without a spring?Thanks.

Lee

*jaw drops to the floor* You have GOT to be kidding me! Your COACH gave it to you without the spring? Yikes! No wonder you weren't getting a good circuit!

The spring is a necessarry part of the tip. It's the contact point between the wire and the tip. and carries the enecrtical signal so the weapon will work. Talk to your coach and get a spring, but make SURE you get one for the right tip; French and German pattern points are NOT compatble. (German sorings are short and squat, while French ones tend to be longer and skinnier)

Look at your tip. There's a little collar neas the base that just sorta sits there. If it has two holes in it, it's a French point; is it looks like an empty tire rim, it's German.

If you put the correct spring in and the weapon works properly, slap your coach for me; he should know better. Better yet, learn to armor your own stuff. Go to the book section of the American Fencing Supply website at http://amfence.com/html/books_fencing.html and go to the bottom of the page. There's a book listed called "ELECTRIC FENCING EQUIPMENT: HOW IT WORKS, WHAT GOES WRONG, HOW TO REPAIR IT" by Rudy Volkmann. Buy it, read it, learn it. I learned more about armory from that book than anything else until I started actually doing wiring as part of my equipment buisness, then talking to and working with some of the top armorers (Dan DeChaine, Donald Clinton (who posts on this board), Carl Oberg). The sabre portion is out of date unless Rudy's updated it recently (it talks about the sensor module on the weapon, when that hasn't been used for years), but the foil and epee parts are excellent.

If you have any other questions, feel free to drop a line!

[Lee Yue Yang]

I think it's German.But how can I tell the different springs apart?Thanks.

Lee

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by Lee Yue Yang
I think it's German.But how can I tell the different springs apart?Thanks.

Lee

Buried in a prior post (misspells and all) "The spring is a necessarry part of the tip. It's the contact point between the wire and the tip. and carries the enecrtical signal so the weapon will work. Talk to your coach and get a spring, but make SURE you get one for the right tip; French and German pattern points are NOT compatble. (German sorings are short and squat, while French ones tend to be longer and skinnier)"

Also, if you put a French spring in, chances are you will not be able to get the point down far enough for the screws to go in...French springs are longer and won't compress as far down.

[Lee Yue Yang]

Ok.I'll definetly talk to my coach about it.And if my foil does work after I put the spring in.......
Thanks alot for all your help.

Lee