Legal?

[erooMynohtnA]

It is a clear no. It does not meet the requirements of affixing the hand in one place set forth in the rules for all grips.

[touchefriend]

Its high time the "grip rule" is revised or rescinded. Slight advantages or disavantages are just that. As long as the weapon meets the length and weight requirements it (IMO)should be legal.

[VorpalCat]

I somehow thought it would be a yes/no answer. Go figure.

Silly person. There ARE no yes/no answers in ... The Cesspool!

[TooLoftheDeviL]

It is a clear no. It does not meet the requirements of affixing the hand in one place set forth in the rules for all grips.

I disagree. In foil or epee, clearly illegal. But...

One could put a weapon with a visconti grip in your hand upside down with four fingers wrapped around the outside of the guard. But I don't think anyone would claim that viscontis are illegal because they don't affix your hand in one place.

So similarly, I just don't buy into allowing someone to hold the grip from the bottom ridge with fingers wrapped around the pommel outside the guard. If someone reported to strip holding their visconti upside-down, I would tell them to flip it over, not confiscate the weapon. If someone reported to strip holding this sabre from the bottom, I would tell them to put their hand entirely in the guard, not confiscate the weapon.

My .02

[SJCFU#2]

While you've presented a simple solution (order the fencer to put their hand entirely inside the guard) how do you then ensure that the fencer doesn't simply shift their hand back to the former position? (easier to do in foil or epee than in saber, if only because there tends to be more time between "Fence" and "Halt", but not necessarily impossible)

The problem with determining which grips are legal and which aren't is that while there are two extremes which are generally agreed upon (traditional French on one side, Belgian and Visconti on the other) there's a huge, rather poorly defined gray area in between those two extremes. When faced with grips that fall into this gray area many people fall back on simple rules of thumb like "external pommel + orthopedic grip = illegal" but I think that may be oversimplifying the matter. We've had various discussions over the years regarding the legality of various "Spanish" grips. Usually the consensus has been that modern Spanish offset grips (the type with an internal pommel) are probably legal, but I have one sitting at home where the extension is large enough to where I suspect it could serve as a grip by itself (albeit it a rather weak one). Does that make it illegal?

And just to complicate things even further, there's also the fact that a "legal" orthopedic grip may not necessarily be legal for everyone. For example, I have large hands so I tend to use either a large or long Visconti. Someone with smaller hands might be hard pressed to hold these grips as intended with the extremity of their thumb within two cm of the inside of the guard, as it required by m.4.6. This doesn't make the grip itself illegal but it does make it illegal for that individual fencer to use it (sort of like a lame that fails to fully cover the target area of an individual fencer would be considered illegal even though it might be considered perfectly acceptable if worn by someone of smaller stature).

[Purple Fencer]

Silly person. There ARE no yes/no answers in ... The Cesspool!

Dun dun duuuuunnnnnnn!!!!


*Who ARE you...Rod Serling?*

[DHCJr]

I disagree. In foil or epee, clearly illegal. But...

One could put a weapon with a visconti grip in your hand upside down with four fingers wrapped around the outside of the guard. But I don't think anyone would claim that viscontis are illegal because they don't affix your hand in one place.

So similarly, I just don't buy into allowing someone to hold the grip from the bottom ridge with fingers wrapped around the pommel outside the guard. If someone reported to strip holding their visconti upside-down, I would tell them to flip it over, not confiscate the weapon. If someone reported to strip holding this sabre from the bottom, I would tell them to put their hand entirely in the guard, not confiscate the weapon.

My .02

If put on a Sabre, I would. To attach it to a sabre, you would need to add something to the handle to cover the tang. This would allow you to hold it in multiple positions even if the hand was still in the guard, right side up or upside down. As SJCFU#2 said the same Visonte may be legal for one person, but not for another because of size.

Just because you take 'legal' parts and combine them together, does not make the whole legal.

Let me give an example. Let us say we build a Foil with a guard with no strenthener and a Russian tip. Now let us take that same blade rewire it with a Uhlmann tip and a guard with a strenthener. Either of those changes might make the blade too long. (M.2.3a & b, M.8)

The Visconte grip can be legal (depending on size), but combined on a Sabre is not.

[Rockstar44]

I somehow thought it would be a yes/no answer. Go figure.

You were right.

No.

Read the rules. This grip is clearly not legal on any weapon.