Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

PeterGustafsson · 01-04-2003, 04:04 AM

Hi!

When an epee thread is glued into the groove, there is always the risk of glue wicking its way up into the tip where it can make the weapon useless if it sets in the wrong place.

The usual way to counter this is to position the blade is vertical with the tip upwards, and apply the glue somewhat below the tip. This leaves a cm or so of the thread unglued (unless one glues the very top again) I do this, but have had problem of the thread popping out close to the tip on several occasions.

Therefore, I have been thinking of ways to prevent wicking, while at the same time make it possible to glue right at the tip from the beginning. One way that popped up in my head would be to apply a very small amount of some substance that prevents wicking, while at the same time not interfering with the function of the tip, just where the thread, groove, and tip barrel meet - before the glue is applied. This would maybe be some sort of solid cream.

Yes, I know that it sounds corny, but is there some reason for why it would not work?

Do you have any other ideas on how to glue right up to the tip without risking wicking?

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Purple Fencer · 01-04-2003, 02:19 PM

Peter;

Wow! A post from you that's less than a page! (kidding...I find your long posts extremely informative and well thought out)
I used to have the same problem. I use a super glue accelerant when I wire a blade -- typically because it's going back into use right after I finish the workm so there's no time to really let the glue cure naturally.

I apply the accerant with a Q-tip. After getting the wire in the groove and bending the blade, the next step for me is to place a drop of the accerant just below the bottom of the barrel (and just in front of the shoulder at the other end). As I lay the glue in, it sets immediately when it hits the accelerant, and as long as I don't overdo the glue, it doesn't wick up.

Hope that helps.

PeterGustafsson · 01-05-2003, 04:30 AM

Hi!

Sam:
Q-tip - is that the kind of cotton-coated stick that can be used to clean out ear wax?

Another question: In foil, it is not only legal, but prescribed, to tape the foible of the weapon. However, I have heard that if you tape your epee - even if it is with electrically conducting tape (the suff you quick-repair copper pistes with) you are breaking the rules. What is the motivation for this? I can not see how one could use this to create fake hits, nor how it could be dangerous to the opponent.

I recently had a wire pop out so badly that it could not be reglued and be out of harm´s way, but I taped it (with plastic tape, nonetheless) and it works fine for club training use. Looks awful, though.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Purple Fencer · 01-05-2003, 10:31 AM

Peter;

Yep..that's a Q-tip. (Sorry...for some reason I thought you knew...forgot you're in Sweden and may not have the same products, or know them by a different name)

I foil the tape is there to help the fecer; if I land a touch and the barell's bare and it's in contact with the lame, the signal will ground out and the light will not go on.

I'm assuming you're referring to taping the end of the weapon in epee, not inside the guard. If you're fencing with your current weapon (the one with the popout) and your opponent lands his point on your blade so his point;s depressed, nothing will happen because the metal to metal contact will ensure that signal is grounded, just like landing on the bell guard. If he his the tape however, the signal will NOT ground and will register a valid hit, just like hitting the floor !

It does happen...typically to people who allow some of the spaghetti to protrude out of the guard and onto the back end of the blade. Happened to me once. I attacked, my point happened to hit his bell guard right where the blade cmes out, but instead of hitting the guard and grounding out, I hit the spaghetti and it registered!

sallearmourer · 01-05-2003, 08:10 PM

The only place tape is allowed by the the rules is the the first 15cm of the foil blade the rule is real speciftion on this. None allowed any where else on the foil blade.

On the epee it's a touch. I cant remenber if that legal at all on the epee

PeterGustafsson · 01-06-2003, 12:40 PM

Hi!

Purple fencer writes:
-------------
Wow! A post from you that's less than a page! (kidding...I find your long posts extremely informative and well thought out)
-------------

Well, have a look at my monster post on ratings then! ;-)

Purple fencer writes:
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I'm assuming you're referring to taping the end of the weapon in epee, not inside the guard. If you're fencing with your current weapon (the one with the popout) and your opponent lands his point on your blade so his point;s depressed, nothing will happen because the metal to metal contact will ensure that signal is grounded, just like landing on the bell guard. If he his the tape however, the signal will NOT ground and will register a valid hit, just like hitting the floor !
--------------

Sam - in all respect, I think that you have misread me. I stated that I was referring to electrically conducting tape, so there should not be a colored light going off. I have tried this once with aluminum tape, and it worked as intended. Why should this be forbidden?

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Purple Fencer · 01-06-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PeterGustafsson

Sam - in all respect, I think that you have misread me. I stated that I was referring to electrically conducting tape, so there should not be a colored light going off. I have tried this once with aluminum tape, and it worked as intended. Why should this be forbidden?
[/b]

Hmmmm...you are correct. I DIDN'T see it. Can't answer the question...Tim or Donald, maybe?

sallearmourer · 01-06-2003, 06:24 PM

It's called a noncoforming weapon and the wires must be seen cannot be hiding by tape at all in epee. Two 4 rated epee referees so stated this it's a yellow card. The rules do not allowed for it. Sorry about that ? Also as a armourer with 30 years of practice in the art of repair and insecption of said weapons. It's illgeal period.

Tim Loomis
Ye Olde Armourer

oiuyt · 01-06-2003, 06:45 PM

His question was not whether or not it was legal, he STATED that it wasn't. His question was why SHOULDN'T it be legal. He's discussing tape noticibly far up a blade, if you can hide and successfully use a switch THERE without a ref noticing, you should be able to do nearly ANYTHING illegal without getting caught. Stating that it violates the rules, no matter how many people you get to agree with you is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Enough so that it has already been stipulated and is actually a required basis for the question.

-B :)

DHCJr · 01-06-2003, 08:42 PM

I am not sure of the reason that it was made illegal, but I can give some guesses.

First, metallic tape that has reliable glue that is non-insulating is relatively new, when compared with electric Epee. You must remember electric Epee was officially recognized almost 70 years ago and the rules have changed very little over that time. Also electric Epee was in use for over 30 years before that. Tape that could cover while still be reliably in contact electrically with the blade was not available.

The second is a little more in the line of ‘adjusting the probability of winning’. If the blade was covered in insulating tape and then covered with metallic tape, then visually you could not tell. When the groove of the blade is checked for insulation if there is a question, usually the fencer whose blade is being checked holds the blade of their opponent to guide the blade down the groove. What if you had one bare spot, with no insulating tape, that you pressed down while testing and then let up when you fenced? To me it wouldn’t be worth it, but there may be some.

Third, since you can’t know visually if it really is electrically connected, there would be the need to check at each bout, which would take time.

I wish I knew a definitive answer, but I don’t. This is a very interesting question that may never be fully answered, since the decision was made to long ago when electric epee rules were first applied and maybe no one in authority has asked that question since.