"Coachtalk" in Fencing?

[Stormbringer]

Hi All,

This article came up through my RSS reader:
“Coachtalk” Models Humility, Hope, Reflection

Of interest, I thought, were the following paragraphs:

While the players take center stage during a game, the role of the coaching staff, in particular the head coach, has risen to celebrity status.

Indeed, whether they win or lose, one outcome is certain: Coaches will follow predictable patterns in what they say after the game. Wake Forest professor John Llewellyn has studied those patterns for years and calls it coachtalk.

.....

Llewellyn analyzed the professional language of Division I men’s college basketball coaches for “Coachtalk,” a chapter in the book “Case Studies in Sport Communication.”

His research reviewed post-game comments from such legendary coaches as Bob Knight, Dean Smith, Mike Krzyzewski and Tom Izzo. He found recurring themes that both winning and losing coaches employ.

The most consistent theme with losing coaches is acknowledgment of the winner, or deference, says Llewellyn.

Winning coaches elevated all aspects of the game, while remaining humble. They also reinforced the traditional values of sport, while acknowledging their suffering throughout the season, Llewellyn said.

Losing coaches deferred to the winners, while subtly giving their fans an alternate definition of winning such as, “It’s just an honor to be here.” Losing coaches also often credited the outcome to fate, while acknowledging that they suffered from the loss.

While the subjects of the study were high-level basketball coaches, it does, I think, raise the question of how generalizable the results are to something very different... like, say, fencing...

For the refs (particularly those with international/high-level-national experience), do you tend to notice this type of behavior - or any other such patterns - in the behavior of the coaches?

For the coaches (particularly those with international/high-level-national experience), do you tend to notice this type of behavior - or any other such patterns - in your own behavior, and/or the behavior of other coaches?

For everyone: what are your thoughts on the article?

[Allen Evans]

These "fans" that coaches are always speaking to, and making public statements for...

What are those, exactly?

A

[noodle]

These "fans" that coaches are always speaking to, and making public statements for...

What are those, exactly?

A

i think that the article is in reference to the press room interviews after a game. which does trickle down to fans, but has no counterpart in fencing.

[Craig]

In fencing we don't like to take responsibility for our own failures so we try to find a way to throw the referee under the bus.

(Seriously, most of the time there can be the same talk but I've seen far too many fencers pass off responsibility to their losses on the referee than taking ownership of their own inability to win.)

Craig

[pjsise1]

Very often, both for the coaches and the players that are interviewed after games, the answers are well rehearsed. They are taught to say many of the canned answers that they use, such as "I'd like to thank my team, my coach, and the big coach upstairs for their support." and "We played hard, played our game, but in the end the other team just wanted it more, but we'll be ready for them next time." Yes, these things are applicable whenever a team or individual wins or loses, but they also want to ensure that the media portrays them in a certain way because of the fans but also the sponsors. Sponsors expect 3 things - a winning record, good sportsmanship in game, and role model quality behavior that appeals to fans out of the game.

[Gav]

In fencing we don't like to take responsibility for our own failures so we try to find a way to throw the referee under the bus.

(Seriously, most of the time there can be the same talk but I've seen far too many fencers pass off responsibility to their losses on the referee than taking ownership of their own inability to win.)

Craig

I agree. Mostly though I think that's human nature. After a period of reflection anyone sensible should be taking responsibility and working on improving their game.

[MdA]

.....they also want to ensure that the media portrays them in a certain way because of the fans but also the sponsors. Sponsors expect 3 things - a winning record, good sportsmanship in game, and role model quality behavior that appeals to fans out of the game.

Sponsors...what exactly are those in fencing?

[D'Art]

Sponsors...what exactly are those in fencing?

Mythical beings

[Fencergrl]

They're most commonly referred to as "my mom & dad" or "my parents".

[HOT Fencing Club]

As of just last night, we've got two. Sponsors, not parents. X)

[esgrima]

They're most commonly referred to as "my mom & dad" or "my parents".

or in some cases, ''my girlfriend''

[jessicasimpson]

In fencing we don't like to take responsibility for our own failures so we try to find a way to throw the referee under the bus.

(Seriously, most of the time there can be the same talk but I've seen far too many fencers pass off responsibility to their losses on the referee than taking ownership of their own inability to win.)

Craig

Don't try and lump Epee fencers together with those other two.

[Craig]

Don't try and lump Epee fencers together with those other two.

I said fencers.

[kapunga]

In fencing we don't like to take responsibility for our own failures so we try to find a way to throw the referee under the bus.

(Seriously, most of the time there can be the same talk but I've seen far too many fencers pass off responsibility to their losses on the referee than taking ownership of their own inability to win.)

Craig

Don't try and lump Epee fencers together with those other two.

I've seen a number of Epee fencers blame it on the director. Most notably at NCAA Regionals last year when a fencer from St. Johns lost to a fencer from MIT when a touch was annulled. The way the action went, the fencer from St. Johns managed to step on the MIT fencer's blade (he was feinting low) then a full tempo later scored a touch (with his foot still on the opponents blade.)

[fdad]

I've seen a number of Epee fencers blame it on the director. Most notably at NCAA Regionals last year when a fencer from St. Johns lost to a fencer from MIT when a touch was annulled. The way the action went, the fencer from St. Johns managed to step on the MIT fencer's blade (he was feinting low) then a full tempo later scored a touch (with his foot still on the opponents blade.)

There is a rule against that?

[kapunga]

There is a rule against that?

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that a referee was supposed to call halt when once a fencer was unable to properly wield their weapon. The St. John's fencer was not penalized for anything as it was clearly not deliberate, but while he may have started his offensive action before the audible halt was given, he clearly didn't start it until after the opponent was unable to properly weird their weapon.

[HOT Fencing Club]

"Weird" their weapons? LOL, maybe your fingers were stuck on auto-pilot.

[Agent_V]

In fencing we don't like to take responsibility for our own failures so we try to find a way to throw the referee under the bus.

(Seriously, most of the time there can be the same talk but I've seen far too many fencers pass off responsibility to their losses on the referee than taking ownership of their own inability to win.)

Craig

Now if only the USFA would fine the offending competitors/coaches $25,000 for that too...

[dcrocket]

Now if only the USFA would fine the offending competitors/coaches $25,000 for that too...

And use the fine money to pay the ref's?