Of course HS fencers have international experience..

[debrobjosh]

Most of you are aware of the size of the high school fencing program in New Jersey. And like any good size HS sporting event, it gets covered in the local newspapers.

Anyway, this past weekend, the state individual championships were held and reported on. In the coverage (NJ girls fencing: Dubrovich, Wallace capture first state titles) was this statement:

Dubrovich came from behind after trailing Singh, 2-0, in their final pool bout to pull off a stunning 5-2 victory over the state's most internationally experienced fencer.

What caught my eye was not the win, but the very matter of fact statement "the state's most internationally experienced fencer." Of course a HS sporting meet has a participant with international experience, and that there is more then one participant with that experience. I just find that fact real cool. I mean how many other HS sport events have members who have competed at the international level. Not many, I'm sure.

[telkanuru]

It's NJ, it's messed up, who cares?

[debrobjosh]

It's NJ, it's messed up, who cares?

You are referring to the issues with the division. This is about the NJ HS sport governing body. Two very different animals.

[telkanuru]

You are referring to the issues with the division. This is about the NJ HS sport governing body. Two very different animals.

No, really just NJ in general.

[Purple Fencer]

Most of you are aware of the size of the high school fencing program in New Jersey. And like any good size HS sporting event, it gets covered in the local newspapers.

Anyway, this past weekend, the state individual championships were held and reported on. In the coverage (NJ girls fencing: Dubrovich, Wallace capture first state titles) was this statement:


What caught my eye was not the win, but the very matter of fact statement "the state's most internationally experienced fencer." Of course a HS sporting meet has a participant with international experience, and that there is more then one participant with that experience. I just find that fact real cool. I mean how many other HS sport events have members who have competed at the international level. Not many, I'm sure.

Some gymnastics programs, I'd imagine....possibly equestrian, if a school has one. Certainly any sport with an Olympic presence could have a high school program with an intl. competitor.

Chaminade HS's (out here in SoCal) current coach, Derek Snyder, also had intl. experience when he was a Chaminade student...won a silver in (I think) an intl. youth games in Moscow (epee)

[flick n' roll]

Most of you are aware of the size of the high school fencing program in New Jersey. And like any good size HS sporting event, it gets covered in the local newspapers.

Anyway, this past weekend, the state individual championships were held and reported on. In the coverage (NJ girls fencing: Dubrovich, Wallace capture first state titles) was this statement:


What caught my eye was not the win, but the very matter of fact statement "the state's most internationally experienced fencer." Of course a HS sporting meet has a participant with international experience, and that there is more then one participant with that experience. I just find that fact real cool. I mean how many other HS sport events have members who have competed at the international level. Not many, I'm sure.

Also on the boys side, all three champions (M. Mills, Kaneshige, Hadzic) are members of the US world team, each with lots of int'l experience. Cool stuff

[thisissparta514]

I mean how many other HS sport events have members who have competed at the international level. Not many, I'm sure.

Well, at least in New York City, there are HS athletes who compete in the Maccabiah Games. The only ones from my school were for basketball and volleyball, and the Maccabiah Games may not be the most cosmopolitan sports event, but it is international experience nevertheless.

[Mihail]

I don't really find it "cool." It just speaks to the small size of the fencing world, which some people like and some people don't. Fencing internationally might be less of an achievement, percentage-wise, than making certain high school tennis teams.

[prototoast]

I don't really find it "cool." It just speaks to the small size of the fencing world, which some people like and some people don't. Fencing internationally might be less of an achievement, percentage-wise, than making certain high school tennis teams.

Not only that, but in the most popular sports (baseball, basketball, football), international competition is not the highest aspiration in the sport.

[Displacement]

Thanks for posting the article, a lot of smaller programs. Do you have any idea how to qualify for individual as an Independent?

Say what you want about NJ Fencing, but the High School program is huge and growing. It get's a lot of kids started in the sport and a good portion of them end up sending membership dues to the USFA.

Is it a Chinese style program built to pump out Olympians? No... There is a wide range of skill on display, but it's still very inclusive while at the same time competitive.

It hasn't devolved into the Parent fight that HS Soccer or Baseball have become.

[fdad]

Thanks for posting the article, a lot of smaller programs. Do you have any idea how to qualify for individual as an Independent?

Say what you want about NJ Fencing, but the High School program is huge and growing. It get's a lot of kids started in the sport and a good portion of them end up sending membership dues to the USFA.

Is it a Chinese style program built to pump out Olympians? No... There is a wide range of skill on display, but it's still very inclusive while at the same time competitive.

It hasn't devolved into the Parent fight that HS Soccer or Baseball have become.

The NJIFA website usually posts this form around early December: http://www.njifa.org/docs/NJSIAA%20D...ry%20Forms.pdf

It has a section for individuals.

[ToucheVerte]

Not only that, but in the most popular sports (baseball, basketball, football), international competition is not the highest aspiration in the sport.

"Fencing internationally might be less of an achievement, percentage-wise, than making certain high school tennis teams" - really?

As it is relevant to this thread, let's take New Jersey high school fencing - over 40 schools - and try a harmless mathematical conjecture. It's safe to assume that each school has at least 6 fencers in (for example) Women's Epee (i.e., one Varsity and one JV team). That would conservatively add up to 240 HS fencers statewide for that particular discipline.

Of those 240, maybe 5% will compete at a NAC - about 12 fencers. Those twelve then become part of a national pool of let's say 100 competitors. So the 5% that go to the NAC then become 12% of the larger pool.

Of that larger pool, maybe 12% get to fence internationally. So, if my hypothetical math is correct, one (and a bit) of the original 240 fencers may see international competition.

That's a rather questionable equivalent to making the high school tennis team, but maybe the schools are that much bigger where you live.

[teacup]

"Fencing internationally might be less of an achievement, percentage-wise, than making certain high school tennis teams" - really? ...

Mere attendance at an international event is not necessarily indicative of the ability of a fencer since not all international fencing tournaments are of equal calibre or have the same eligibility requirements.

For example, any WE fencer who has attended a Y14 or cadet NAC is eligible to attend a cadet designated event, which are only local tournaments in other countries, and there is no minimum to the number who can attend. Although the other squads have slightly different criteria, for most cadet fencers, the ability to attend cadet designated or local international events may depend more on a fencer's ability to pay travel expenses rather than fencing ability.

I am not suggesting that excellent high school fencers don't compete internationally at challenging events, nor mean to diminish international achievements, just pointing out that not all international events are the same due to different strength factors and eligibility requirements.

(Attendance vs final placement, at international events, are also two different issues.)

Therefore in response to a previous post, in some instances it could be harder to get on a high school team of another sport rather than fence internationally, if to fence in an international local cadet event or other international event, all one needs is time and money,.

[Piranha]

Although the other squads have slightly different criteria, for most cadet fencers, the ability to attend cadet designated or local international events may depend more on a fencer's ability to pay travel expenses rather than fencing ability.

Despite the fact that it makes for a good sports factoid, I think this comment above helps clarify what experience might mean in this case.

[PretAllez]

Not to burst anyone's bubble here, but any US fencer close to a border who participates in a local fencing event in Canada (or Mexico?) could technically claim "international experience"
(and the reverse is true, of course)

So really, what does "international experience" mean? It means you own a passport and have had it stamped.
(Mind you, I understand that this is quite an accomplishment for many members of Congress )

[fdad]

Not to burst anyone's bubble here, but any US fencer close to a border who participates in a local fencing event in Canada (or Mexico?) could technically claim "international experience"
(and the reverse is true, of course)

So really, what does "international experience" mean? It means you own a passport and have had it stamped.
(Mind you, I understand that this is quite an accomplishment for many members of Congress )

In the case of fencer mentioned in the OP, she is the highest finishing (top 32 I think) member of the Senior National Team at the most recent World Championships, and she fenced in almost every one of her high school's meets (often flying at high cost to/from European designated Junior/Senior WCs to make it in time).

[PretAllez]

In the case of fencer mentioned in the OP, she is the highest finishing (top 32 I think) member of the Senior National Team at the most recent World Championships, and she fenced in almost every one of her high school's meets (often flying at high cost to/from European designated Junior/Senior WCs to make it in time).

I don't mean to disparage anyone's competitive accomplishments; on the contrary, I'm just saying that the term "international experience" is too broad to truly qualify those accomplishments. Perhaps "World Cup experience" would be a better term.

[piste off]

In the case of fencer mentioned in the OP, she is the highest finishing (top 32 I think) member of the Senior National Team at the most recent World Championships, and she fenced in almost every one of her high school's meets (often flying at high cost to/from European designated Junior/Senior WCs to make it in time).

Now THAT's impressive on several levels!!! They should have said that in the article.

R-

[fdad]

Now THAT's impressive on several levels!!! They should have said that in the article.

R-

I agree, though we (HS fencing) kind of take what little we can get in the newspapers.

[escrime24]

Actually, the coverage of HS fencing in the Star Ledger is impressive. As the season is starting up, they have a preview. During the season, they give results, post rankings and profile a "Top Performer" each week for boys and girls fencing. At the end of the season, they make their own All State list and select a "Fencer of the Year." Many of the top fencers in general and the top WF fencers in particular this season have been profiled in detail (click "more in the blog" ) and when there have been notable national/international results, they do mention that.
http://highschoolsports.nj.com/girlsfencing/
http://highschoolsports.nj.com/boysfencing/