Easy Metal Strip setup ideas?

[LordShout]

Anyone know of a quick way to setup a mesh metal strip that wont trash the floor and takes under ten minutes so it could be done frequently for practice? Also it shouldn't involve using more than 1/4 roll of tape so low continuing investment.

My supplies are: Plywood, 2x4's, people, metal strips and a workshop of assorted tools.

First idea: make a plywood/mesh version of the aluminum plank strips.

Second idea: Make a plywood strip that can have the mesh rolled out on it and tensioned through a traction or pulley system.

[noodle]

i've seen a version of the first suggestion you made, and it seemed to work well. i can't comment on how quickly it was assembled/disassembled, but it seemed to work well and withstand the test of time.

[K O'N]

Anyone know of a quick way to setup a mesh metal strip that wont trash the floor and takes under ten minutes so it could be done frequently for practice? Also it shouldn't involve using more than 1/4 roll of tape so low continuing investment.

My supplies are: Plywood, 2x4's, people, metal strips and a workshop of assorted tools.

First idea: make a plywood/mesh version of the aluminum plank strips.

Second idea: Make a plywood strip that can have the mesh rolled out on it and tensioned through a traction or pulley system.

I would be interested in this too. I thought of making a sectional plywood mesh strip, but I was worried about the ply warping, about physical attachment of the sections to each other, and about how to ground them one section to the other. If you make one and get it to work please take notes and picture.

K O'N

[Purple Fencer]

I would swear I saw a version of your first idea at the West Coast Invitational the year it was held at Arizona State. Inq might remember...he was reffing that tourney.

I was vending and got into town late on setup day, so I didn't see it going up, but as I recall, the plywood base was designed so the pieces could fit together like a puzzle...don't remember how they ensured conductivity from section to section, tho....I think the sections were 2 meters square. Now that I think about it, section to section conductivity could be done simply by bolting the sections together after assembly.

I would think that if you go the plywood route and store the sections flat with a big weight on top, you might keep any warping to a minimum....and puzzle pieces will be easier to set up than trying to maintain tension on a roll.

[Inquartata]

I was vending and got into town late on setup day, so I didn't see it going up, but as I recall, the plywood base was designed so the pieces could fit together like a puzzle...

Yeah, Adrian Douglas ( Ewan and Rhys Douglas' father ) came up with these for the Arizona Division.

Each section has two small cut-outs at each end, on the underside. A small piece of plywood shaped like a barbell fits into each cut-out and holds the sections together.

don't remember how they ensured conductivity from section to section

Metallic tape.

[SJCFU#2]

Each section has two small cut-outs at each end, on the underside. A small piece of plywood shaped like a barbell fits into each cut-out and holds the sections together.

Seems like once you get the point of mounting things on plywood sheets you might as well use perforated sheet metal and make your own cheese graters (they'll probably hold up a lot better than any mesh).

I have seen similar things to what Inq described, except it was perforated aluminum sheets attached to plywood sheets and rather than dog bone shaped pieces of plywood it looked like they were using sections of wide flange I beam (might have even come direct from Zivkovic). Unfortunately IIRC they were a bit awkward to store (twelve 4x6x3/4 panels occupy a bit of space) and I suspect the cost of metallic tape added up so it really didn't see all that much use.

Another system I saw had perforated aluminum sheets mounted atop wood panels, each of which was supported by a frame underneath (sort of like a portable raised floor). Each segment had strips of sheet metal that contacted the underside of the aluminum sheets, then wrapped around to cover the front and back faces. When the segments were pulled together (it had special latches that pulled the segments together when tightened) the metallic pieces on each end would come into contact with one another, shorting them together. Only problem was with the wooden frame underneath each segment was about four inches deep and it required a good sized truck just to carry the thing around.

I'd have to say that for convenience, ease of set up and portability it's hard to beat non-metallic conductive strips. Unfortunately they aren't cheap and the last I heard durability was still an issue with them (supposedly the USFA even once considered getting them for NAC's, figuring they would save enough on shipping in just one year to justify the cost - but they were afraid that the strips wouldn't an entire year).

[KD5MDK]

Non-metalic conductive strips in the models I've seen have about 0 padding. When laid down directly on concrete, like most USFA sites, that's a very bad thing.

[erooMynohtnA]

What about putting a nonslip substrate underneath the metal mesh like that plastic mesh stuff that goes under carpet or chairs to keep to keep them from shifting around?

[K O'N]

Non-metalic conductive strips in the models I've seen have about 0 padding. When laid down directly on concrete, like most USFA sites, that's a very bad thing.

Who sells a non-metallic strip? I have a rubber floor on my gym, I don't need the strip to provide padding.

K O'N

[Purple Fencer]

Who sells a non-metallic strip? I have a rubber floor on my gym, I don't need the strip to provide padding.

K O'N

Leon Paul, I think....

[LordShout]

I would ensure conductivity by using a plug and cord between each plank sections.

The thing for me is we have 4 metal strips that get taken out of storage and used maybe twice a year. If there was a way that we could make them more usable, even just one of them, it would be great.

So far I've come to the conclusion that we could do it, but I'm not confidant enough to start cutting.

[Purple Fencer]

I would ensure conductivity by using a plug and cord between each plank sections.

The thing for me is we have 4 metal strips that get taken out of storage and used maybe twice a year. If there was a way that we could make them more usable, even just one of them, it would be great.

So far I've come to the conclusion that we could do it, but I'm not confidant enough to start cutting.

If you get to that point you might consider cutting the rolled copper into 2 meter square segments and mount them on plywood...probably a LOT easier to tension 2 meters instead of 14. A LOT lighter to carry sections than a rolled strip, also...those buggers are HEAVY, and the copper edges aren't exactly smooth....you definitely need to wear gloves.

'Course, you'd still have to patch any holes, but all that takes is some metal tape like you'd find at Home Depot for duct work, a rubber mallet, and the time to pound the patch down.

You tear a patch a little bigger then the hole you're fixing, remove the paper backing so the sticky side is exposed, fold one corner over so you have a unglued portion directly in contact with the copper, then pound away at the patch until you start seeing the copper pattern show through.

Very cathartic, actually.

[Palisadeur]

Seems like once you get the point of mounting things on plywood sheets you might as well use perforated sheet metal and make your own cheese graters (they'll probably hold up a lot better than any mesh).

I agree, unless you have a serious amount of good quality (like, furniture grade) wood just lying around for free, the aluminium sheet method is the way to go.
FencingSA uses something similar to these, and they are fantastically indestructable. They're about 1.5cm thick and connect using a kind of hooked tongue-in-groove arrangement along the entire connecting edge.
They're a ***** to move around because, all stacked, they're pretty heavy, but if you have storage space in the club/hall they're fine.
Setup is around 10-15 with two people who know what they're doing.

Then again, it might be cheapest still to contact your local forge and see how much it would cost to have them 'accidentally' spill a very large crucible of molten metal on the floor of your local gymnasium...

I'd have to say that for convenience, ease of set up and portability it's hard to beat non-metallic conductive strips. Unfortunately they aren't cheap and the last I heard durability was still an issue with them

Anyone have any experience with these?

[Inquartata]

I have seen similar things to what Inq described, except it was perforated aluminum sheets attached to plywood sheets

That's actually what the Az Division uses.

I suspect the cost of metallic tape added up so it really didn't see all that much use.

I suspect so. Maybe one could levy an extra charge on the epeeists, since they're the only ones who need a grounded strip...

[SJCFU#2]

Who sells a non-metallic strip? I have a rubber floor on my gym, I don't need the strip to provide padding.

Artos was the first manufacturer that I'm aware of
Leon Paul (as PF already mentioned)
Absolute (who actually sells two different models - have to wonder if the "German Conductive Fabric Strip" might not be direct from Artos)
Blue Gauntlet (also sells a "German" model as well)

Anyone have any experience with these?

They've been discussed here a few times over the years. Here's one thread, but I'm certain you could find others (just use the search function in the green bar near the top of the page).

IIRC many early ones had problems with the conductive layer separating from the rubber underneath (although it sounds like the floor underneath may also have been a factor). Haven't heard much about them in the last year or two so maybe it's become less frequent of a problem (either that or everyone has abandoned them).

[SJCFU#2]

'Course, you'd still have to patch any holes, but all that takes is some metal tape like you'd find at Home Depot for duct work, a rubber mallet, and the time to pound the patch down.

That might suffice for a temporary patch but proper repair of metallic mesh strips (be they copper, phosphor bronze or even stainless steel) requires a good sized soldering iron (or even a torch), a lot of flux and even more patience.

I would suggest reading this thread before investing too much time and effort into anything involving metallic mesh. And realize that there's a reason why segmented aluminum strips have pretty much replaced the old metallic mesh ones at NAC's.

[Belegur]

I agree, unless you have a serious amount of good quality (like, furniture grade) wood just lying around for free, the aluminium sheet method is the way to go.
FencingSA uses something similar to these, and they are fantastically indestructable. They're about 1.5cm thick and connect using a kind of hooked tongue-in-groove arrangement along the entire connecting edge.
They're a ***** to move around because, all stacked, they're pretty heavy, but if you have storage space in the club/hall they're fine.
Setup is around 10-15 with two people who know what they're doing.

Then again, it might be cheapest still to contact your local forge and see how much it would cost to have them 'accidentally' spill a very large crucible of molten metal on the floor of your local gymnasium...


Anyone have any experience with these?

The problem with these is that they need to be properly secured. AuFEC has one of the LP non-metallic conductive pistes, and it just keeps bunching up whenever it's used. You do really need to stretch them and place heavy objects to keep them in that position, although, short of having people stand on them while they're being used, we haven't found anything suitable for that. Tape just doesn't seem to work properly. It would probably work best as a permanent piste held down by screws or nails.
Having seen the other thread, I'll offer a contrary opinion here: the LP ones, at least, are as grippy as all get out. No sliding at all, which is a refreshing change from the average gym floor.

[VorpalCat]

A couple of the rubber/mesh strips were loaned to the VA Division for use at the Hangover back in January. The setup/takedown seemed pretty straight forward and one person could carry the rolled-up strip. Unfortunately, I'm drawing a total blank as to the vendor but hopefully C'ville or someone else who was there can fill in said blank. (And maybe has heard more feedback as to fencers' opinions of the bouts on those strips.)

[SJCFU#2]

The problem with these is that they need to be properly secured. AuFEC has one of the LP non-metallic conductive pistes, and it just keeps bunching up whenever it's used. You do really need to stretch them and place heavy objects to keep them in that position, although, short of having people stand on them while they're being used, we haven't found anything suitable for that. Tape just doesn't seem to work properly.

I've found that large barbel weights (30 or 40 kg) placed atop the ends of a strip can be very effective at anchoring it down, especially when dealing with an athletic director who is paranoid about having anything taped down to his precious gym floor. Of course this approach works best when you have a have a ready supply of weights close at hand, such as weight room immediately adjacent to the gym (saves you the hassle of bringing you own) and a decent bit of run-off at either end of the strip (at least 2 meters) so as to minimize the risk of anyone tripping over a weight while retreating beyond the end line.

I also remember seeing a strip once that looked like it had a series of snap (pop) fasteners installed along either side of the strip at maybe 1 meter intervals. I suspect the idea was to help reinforce the bond between the conductive layer on the top and the rubber layer underneath (it's possible that they were actually fabric rivets) but at the time I had to wonder if there wasn't a venue somewhere with studs mounted to the floor that would allow them to simply snap the strip down on place.

[Mergs]

Absolute provided 10 of the lightweight strips for the Capitol Clash back in January. As Vopal pointed out, they were a breeze to set up, and could be carried by one person. The only issue I had was that the surface material is not very durable, but Gary said they are working on it. Still needs tape to keep it in place, though.

As for ensuring connectivity for the plywood panel arrangement, what I've seen done in the past is to wrap the metal around the edge of the plywood and then press the two pieces together and secure the plywood pieces to each other. The Dogbone method sounds great, especially if you have a router set up that will follow a template. Something else that could be done would be to put a strip of 1/8" thick silicone rubber between the metal and plywood on the edge so you get some compression between them and guarantee a solid contact between the different panels.