Why so expensive?

[contre-Sixte]

Just a casual survey on the internet of entry fees of national level tournaments:

U.S. Fencing (2 events at NAC, Nationals) $170
Archery $100
Gymnastics $100
Judo $65
Tennis $60
Track & Field $60
World Cup Fencing $40

Why are our entry fees so out of line with other sports (which also require trained refs, equipment and support staff)?

[Purple Fencer]

Venue costs?? Paying for an appropriate venue for 3 days (for the tournament...pretty sure it's an extra day or 2 for setup and tear down) ain't cheap.

Talking about a NAC here....Summer Nats is 11 days overall for space rental.

[prototoast]

I would suspect because of a severe lack of sponsorship.

[contre-Sixte]

Why are our venue costs more expensive than a gymnastics tournament or a World Cup Fencing tournament?

[RebelFencer]

Venue costs?? Paying for an appropriate venue for 3 days (for the tournament...pretty sure it's an extra day or 2 for setup and tear down) ain't cheap.

Talking about a NAC here....Summer Nats is 11 days overall for space rental.

That doesn't make sense to me. With just the Division 1 events at the NAC C they pulled in about $100k. There were 27 other events that went on for that NAC I didn't even tally. $80 always seemed like a reasonable price, hell even $100 wouldn't be that awful... but it is starting to feel like gouging.

[noodle]

they're expensive because it makes sense to make them more expensive. they're the best place to wring out some extra $ to help fix the budget issues that the USFA has been having, and help to fund the higher level stuff that they have to fund.

raising membership dues will make the barrier of entry for a newbie higher, which is detrimental and counterproductive (fewer members = less $). where else could they make changes to pull in $?

[edew]

Cuz, the USFA is deeply in the red and the only source of revenue at the moment is tournament fees.

[KD5MDK]

Why are you comparing 2 fencing events to presumably 1 non-fencing event?

Do you know if the other events make money on their events from entry fees? I can assure you World Cups don't cover their costs from entry fees.

[hello?]

Why does going to the movies keep getting more and more expensive?

Because people will pay for tickets.

Look at the number of entrants for NACs. Cost is not a deterrent. We keep paying. (I, for one, am still getting something I am willing to pay for. Does it hurt? Yes!...So does paying over $10 to go to the movies. But I love going to the movies. So I keep paying....Otherwise, I could rent movies -- just like I could do with just ROCs if cost was the only deciding factor.)

The USFA needs money. Our events are getting too big for the USFA to manage (a whole other issue). Obviously, they've done the math.

[Craig]

Why are our entry fees so out of line with other sports (which also require trained refs, equipment and support staff)?

It's because our referees get paid so well.

[teacup]

Just a casual survey on the internet of entry fees of national level tournaments:

U.S. Fencing (2 events at NAC, Nationals) $170

Why are our entry fees so out of line with other sports (which also require trained refs, equipment and support staff)?

Two events at a NAC are $190.00
$50.00 + (2 x $70.00) = $$190.00

Why are our venue costs more expensive than a gymnastics tournament or a World Cup Fencing tournament?

Comparing fencing fees to fencing fees, one reason that World Cups and other international entries fees are much less expensive, 20 Euros vs $90, could be that instead of holding all weapons with multiple events in large convention centers over four days, single weapon or single age/gender events are held over two day weekends in fencing clubs or large sports facilities.

Strips aren't being shipped and convention staff aren't paid to unload, serve food and clean. Food is sometimes supplied by club volunteers, similar to PTA bake sales. Cadet designated events are local events, run with volunteers and sometimes older youth fencers refereeing.

ROCs and SYCs are closer models to international events than NACs but even ROCs and SYCs are required to have events for all six weapons.

[DHCJr]

Another reason the World Cups can be less expensive is the referees, or whom is paying for them. In the past each country who brought 5 competitors supplied a referee and 10 brought 2. Now it is just the Juniors that this happens. Who supplies the Seniors now? The FIE, not the organizer.

The other sports don't have the equipment and space requirement that fencing has.

You should see how much it cost for the competitor to compete at a dance competition. The entry fee can get up there. Each event cost money and you might have a half-dozen. You are paying for about 3 minutes of competition each. If that was all the cost, it wouldn't be bad, but the usual is you pay your teacher an hour lesson fee too, so they can go out there with you for that 3 minutes.

I looked up how much it would cost to compete at the dance nationals. $90 for the first and $60 for each additional. Let us say you competed in Open Bronze Fox Trot, Waltz and Jive, that would be $210.

[downunder]

Another reason the World Cups can be less expensive is the referees, or whom is paying for them. In the past each country who brought 5 competitors supplied a referee and 10 brought 2. Now it is just the Juniors that this happens. Who supplies the Seniors now? The FIE, not the organizer.
.

This is only in place for next season, assuming it gets cleared at congress in a few weeks.

For the 2010 season GPs, zonals and worlds (not vets) have FIE appointed referees, not senior or junior world cup events.

[DHCJr]

Thank you downunder for correcting that. My main premise is still good. This season, it is still not the organizers that pays for most of the referees. This year it is the countries sending fencers, next year, if approved the FIE.

The organizers don't have the same costs as the USFA.

[milstdfarm]

they're expensive because it makes sense to make them more expensive. they're the best place to wring out some extra $ to help fix the budget issues that the USFA has been having, and help to fund the higher level stuff that they have to fund.

raising membership dues will make the barrier of entry for a newbie higher, which is detrimental and counterproductive (fewer members = less $). where else could they make changes to pull in $?

noodle, edew and hello? all have it right. Simple economics at play. The USFA has money issues. As long as the NAC's continue to draw large numbers of fencers, the USFA can raise prices. At the point where the price starts to impact the number of fencers entering one can say the price is too high. Until then, supply and demand rules.

[milstdfarm]

I should add, I took my son to fence in the JO's but I myself declined to fence in the Dallas NAC.

So the price is close to the point where I won't pay it.

[RITFencing]

On the subject of dues, the USOC has a rule which bans member organizations from raising their dues by more than 5 dollars per year.

Go take a look at what you've been paying for membership over the past few years. It will likely continue to go up.

[noodle]

noodle, edew and hello? all have it right. Simple economics at play. The USFA has money issues. As long as the NAC's continue to draw large numbers of fencers, the USFA can raise prices. At the point where the price starts to impact the number of fencers entering one can say the price is too high. Until then, supply and demand rules.

price has impacted the number of fencers entering, but not detrimentally, imo. we're no longer seeing brackets of 512 or events that end after midnight, and that is a wonderful thing.

[edew]

Events ending at midnight are not due to overly large entry sizes. We can thank a more proactive and professional group of TOs and BC folks for running the events far more smoothly now than before.

Also, not have repechage at 32 helps quite a bit. Takes off about 2 hours, maybe 3 for epee, from all events.

[fdad]

In many countries, the venues for Fencing events are owned by the state. Employees of the venue at employed by the state and paid whether or not events are held at the venue. Holding an event in an otherwise unused venue costs almost nothing compared to leaving it unused. In the US, we pay for the venue, the staff, etc. and it costs a lot.