You make the call, from a real video, and then I'll tell you watch the judge said

[dramamine]

So this is a clip of a WF bout last week between Ryan (CAN) and Nam (KOR).

The hit is given to Ryan (left) and then appealed by Nam. However, the clip is cut before you get to see what the judge decides

Ryan just made a pretty big comeback from losing 2-8 to (with the hit being awarded to her) 11-11. Is Nam just buying some time to gather her thoughts, or is this her hit? You make the call.

You may need a facebook account to see it, but God knows that with facebook having pretty much taken over the world that probably isn't an issue for most of you :P

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...8561975&ref=nf

Two things:

- Difficult to see on the video, but the final blade contact is Ryan taking the blade in 6.

- Credit to her dad Rob for the video

After some people have given their thoughts I'll tell you what the judge said.

[Purple Fencer]

Based only on the visual, it looks like attack Nam (presuming she's on the right of the video), Ryan counter....should've gone to Nam.

What I can't HEAR is any blade contact that might indicate a parry-riposte by Ryan...you have to use your ears as well as your eyes.

[IanSerotkin]

Initial attack from right is NO. Attack from left arrives, touch left (Ryan).

[Superscribe]

The call is attack from Ryan, touch Ryan. The ref would not have changed their answer from slow mo.

[Purple Fencer]

Initial attack from right is NO. Attack from left arrives, touch left (Ryan).

Ok...now that we have an ACTUAL bout and not something staged with no context of movement or tactics...can you parse that one out? To my eye, it doesn't look like Nam missed at ALL...it is a matter of simply being too fast to see, or something else being missed that leads you that way?

And I'd missed the original Ryan taking a parry 6 on the last action...so it COULD be a parry-riposte by her....but I'd REALLY like to have been able to hear that contact.

[epeemike81]

Initial attack from right is NO. Attack from left arrives, touch left (Ryan).

this.

-m

[Allen Evans]

Don't have access to the video.

A

[Purple Fencer]

Another problem is the initial attack comes from Nam....but the director only indicates an attack from RYAN....if there's a missed/parried attack by Nam and a counter-attack/parry-riposte by Ryan, the director does not indicate that.

[catwood1]

Attack from our right is no, attack from our left arrives.

[Dev]

Gut instinct, on the spot, I would have called Ryan's attack (right attack is short, left attacks and right counters).

After I looked again, two or three times, I thought perhaps that might be a lazy call, as I allowed my eyes to be pulled toward Ryan to see her potential attack, and away from the center where I might see what both fencers are doing.

When I forced myself to pick up the peripherals, I saw this:

Nam: attack
Ryan: pulls it short
Ryan: "settles" to change direction
Nam: attack
Ryan: advance, then lunge finish short into Nam because the distance has collapsed

Basically, Ryan took long enough to change direction before starting her advance lunge that Nam could steal it from her. However (at least for me), this call would probably require instant replay (I didn't pick up on it until after five or six watches), and furthermore would require a precedent of calling insanely tight timing.

Am I talking myself into an incorrect call by overanalysis?

[catwood1]

I can see where you're coming from, but to me its still attack no attack. It looks like FooR* isn't taking over in time. I think FooRs' front foot lands before she hits anyway.

*Fencer on our right.

[catwood1]

Ok...now that we have an ACTUAL bout and not something staged with no context of movement or tactics...can you parse that one out? To my eye, it doesn't look like Nam missed at ALL...it is a matter of simply being too fast to see, or something else being missed that leads you that way?

And I'd missed the original Ryan taking a parry 6 on the last action...so it COULD be a parry-riposte by her....but I'd REALLY like to have been able to hear that contact.

The first attack that is no is at :27. FooR makes a lunge that FooL easily pulls short by making cross back retreat. FooR recovers back. Then, pretty close in time, FooR makes an advance lunge, and FooL makes a sort of an awkward advance lunge or double advance.

The devil's in the details of the exact timing.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Gonna hafta agree with Ian and Chris. Attack (from our) Right is no, Attack (from our) Left arrives.

6 in foil.

[erooMynohtnA]

Another attack right no, attack left over here.

[D'Art]

Gut instinct, on the spot, I would have called Ryan's attack (right attack is short, left attacks and right counters).

After I looked again, two or three times, I thought perhaps that might be a lazy call, as I allowed my eyes to be pulled toward Ryan to see her potential attack, and away from the center where I might see what both fencers are doing.

When I forced myself to pick up the peripherals, I saw this:

Nam: attack
Ryan: pulls it short
Ryan: "settles" to change direction
Nam: attack
Ryan: advance, then lunge finish short into Nam because the distance has collapsed

Basically, Ryan took long enough to change direction before starting her advance lunge that Nam could steal it from her. However (at least for me), this call would probably require instant replay (I didn't pick up on it until after five or six watches), and furthermore would require a precedent of calling insanely tight timing.

I can see where this came from, and wouldn't be surprised if it was actually called after a review, but I'd go with the masses on first viewing.

In my defence, I'm not any sort of good referee, but I'd call it for Ryan in real time, but would probably call it for Nam on review.

[dramamine]

Bump for more answers

I'll post the call tonight.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Bump for more answers

I'll post the call tonight.

You bumped a thread that hadn't had a post in it for a whole half hour??

[Purple Fencer]

The first attack that is no is at :27. FooR makes a lunge that FooL easily pulls short by making cross back retreat. FooR recovers back. Then, pretty close in time, FooR makes an advance lunge, and FooL makes a sort of an awkward advance lunge or double advance.

The devil's in the details of the exact timing.

Ok...I see where you're going, and I DO see the "attack no" from FooR....but isn't the next (and final) action from either side MORE than a tempo later? FooL did not immediately attack after FooR fell short. I see a SMALL step forward from FooL that could be construed as a very short advance-lunge, which would give her RoW ans thus the touch...but that's one I only saw on repeated viewings.

For me, I saw a definite break in the action between :27 and the final, which I saw as FooR attack. FooL counter-attack, touch for FooR.

I suspect that was the argument FooR made....that in the final action, she launched her attack first.

Interested in what happened next.

[Agent_V]

Well, there is a first attack from the right which is short, but left does not start an immediate attack afterwards. Right's second attack seems to start first (although the video's frame rate isn't high enough to tell for certain)

Alexander

[edew]

Without having seen the video clip, I'm going to have to give it to the asian fencer.