Division Qualification Trickle-Down

[Lefty Belgian]

What happens when a fencer qualifies for Summer Nationals in one age division and then subsequently qualifies in a higher age division? Does his place in the lower division open up to the next placing fencer?

My understanding is the Divisional Qualifiers are to be scheduled with the higher age divisions earlier and the younger age divisions later. The purpose for this is to insure as many qualifiers as possible in each division. This happens because a fencer who qualifies at the U20 level is auto-qualified for U16, and a fencer qualifying at the U16 level is auto-qualified for Y14. In most cases, a fencer qualifying at a higher level will not compete in the qualifier for the lower level. In any case, such a fencer would not be counted in the qualifying count at that lower level.

But what happens if the qualifiers are in reverse age order, i.e. from younger to older? A fencer qualifying in Y14 may subsequently qualify in Cadet and/or a fencer qualifying in Cadet may subsequently qualify in Juniors.

Assume a division Cadet Qualifier for Summer Nationals from which the top 3 competitors qualify. If 1 of these 3 subsequently qualifies in the division Junior competition, does #4 in the prior Cadet competition become qualified for Summer Nationals?

[dsapery]

What happens when a fencer qualifies for Summer Nationals in one age division and then subsequently qualifies in a higher age division? Does his place in the lower division open up to the next placing fencer?

My understanding is the Divisional Qualifiers are to be scheduled with the higher age divisions earlier and the younger age divisions later. The purpose for this is to insure as many qualifiers as possible in each division. This happens because a fencer who qualifies at the U20 level is auto-qualified for U16, and a fencer qualifying at the U16 level is auto-qualified for Y14. In most cases, a fencer qualifying at a higher level will not compete in the qualifier for the lower level. In any case, such a fencer would not be counted in the qualifying count at that lower level.

But what happens if the qualifiers are in reverse age order, i.e. from younger to older? A fencer qualifying in Y14 may subsequently qualify in Cadet and/or a fencer qualifying in Cadet may subsequently qualify in Juniors.

Assume a division Cadet Qualifier for Summer Nationals from which the top 3 competitors qualify. If 1 of these 3 subsequently qualifies in the division Junior competition, does #4 in the prior Cadet competition become qualified for Summer Nationals?

Who is and who isn't an automatic is determined as of the date of the qualifying competition.

[oiuyt]

The trickle-down is not retroactive.

If a fencer qualifies for U16 and subsequently qualifies for U19 he or she still used up a slot at the U16 qualifier.

There is no mandate that higher age categories ought to be scheduled earlier to increase the number of trickle-down qualifications, although some divisions choose to do so for this reason. There are also divisions which intentionally avoid doing so.

For many parts of the country divisions hold their U16 qualifiers before the section holds the U19 qualifier.

-B

[oldguy]

How about:
A fencer gets points at an SYC which would qualify him/her for the Summer Nationals at Y14. Fencer's division holds Y14 qualifiers before those SYC points are posted (after the Youth NAC). If the fencer goes to the qualifier, would he/she be considered auto-qualified for the purposes of that tournament? If so, it would make sense to compete to help increase the number qualified from that division. If not, it would be counter productive to place in a qualifying position and in effect decrease the number of qualifiers by one.

[fdad]

Who is and who isn't an automatic is determined as of the date of the qualifying competition.

Some divisions hold multiple qualifiers the same day, in that case its the time (not just the date) that matters.

[teacup]

Unlike JO qualifiers which are held by divisions, U19 SN qualifiers are held by sections and cadet qualifiers are held by divisions. In order to get the maximum number of fencers qualified, divisions could hold their U16 qualifiers after their section U19 qualifiers because those who qualified for U19 would be counted as autos.

[teacup]

How about:
A fencer gets points at an SYC which would qualify him/her for the Summer Nationals at Y14. Fencer's division holds Y14 qualifiers before those SYC points are posted (after the Youth NAC). If the fencer goes to the qualifier, would he/she be considered auto-qualified for the purposes of that tournament? If so, it would make sense to compete to help increase the number qualified from that division. If not, it would be counter productive to place in a qualifying position and in effect decrease the number of qualifiers by one.

In previous seasons in the spring, the USFA has published a list of fencers who have earned points at SYCs to be used by division and fencers to determine who is qualified for Y14 SN events.

If a division's qualifiers are held before this list is published, perhaps fencers should get an email from the USFA stating that they have earned points at an SYC this season, in order to be considered auto and for underage Y14 fencers to fence up in their division's cadet qualifiers.

[fdad]

In previous seasons in the spring, the USFA has published a list of fencers who have earned points at SYCs to be used by division and fencers to determine who is qualified for Y14 SN events.

If a division's qualifiers are held before this list is published, perhaps fencers should get an email from the USFA stating that they have earned points at an SYC this season, in order to be considered auto and for underage Y14 fencers to fence up in their division's cadet qualifiers.

The autos list has been up for a while (with a disclaimer that its a work in progress): http://usfencing.org/assets/document...Qualifiers.xls. Not sure if there is enough info there to decide whether a Y14 can fence in a U16 qualifier (though if they are an auto for Y14 isn't that enough?)

[teacup]

The autos list has been up for a while (with a disclaimer that its a work in progress): http://usfencing.org/assets/document...Qualifiers.xls. Not sure if there is enough info there to decide whether a Y14 can fence in a U16 qualifier (though if they are an auto for Y14 isn't that enough?)

Thanks! (It was posted on March 19.) However, the list doesn't show fencers who earned points at SYC from Sept. 1990 to now.

P = meets points qualification path [additional qualifiers through Point Standings will be added after the April 2010 NAC]

So it doesn't help answer the two questions. In past seasons, a separate list of fencers who earned points from SYCs were posted in March. This is different than the auto qualified list.

(Can you give me a clue where exactly this list is posted? How did you find it? I looked under Summer Nationals information, competitions, youth, national, athletes, forms, news.....)

[fdad]

Thanks! (It was posted on March 19.) However, the list doesn't show fencers who earned points at SYC from Sept. 1990 to now.

P = meets points qualification path [additional qualifiers through Point Standings will be added after the April 2010 NAC]

So it doesn't help answer the two questions. In past seasons, a separate list of fencers who earned points from SYCs were posted in March. This is different than the auto qualified list.

(Can you give me a clue where exactly this list is posted? How did you find it? I looked under Summer Nationals information, competitions, youth, national, athletes, forms, news.....)

On the Summer Nationals page: "Auto Qualifiers - not all levels have been posted; please check back as this file is updated"

The link has been active for at least a month, though it may have been updated on the 19th.

[teacup]

On the Summer Nationals page: "Auto Qualifiers - not all levels have been posted; please check back as this file is updated"

The link has been active for at least a month, though it may have been updated on the 19th.

Duh, missed it.
Thanks!