Dept of Education ordering Tactical Shotguns

[melensdad]

I wonder why? Since when does the D.O.E. have police powers? Where do they use these shotguns since states have authority over schools? Based on the specs below, these are defensive weapons, with ultra short barrels (shorter than is legal for civilian ownership without special license/taxes). Are they expecting an assault on the D.O.E. offices in Washington?

https://www.fbo.gov/index?&s=opportu...e&tabmode=list

Synopsis:
Added: Mar 08, 2010 10:39 am
The U.S. Department of Education (ED) intends to purchase twenty-seven (27) REMINGTON BRAND MODEL 870 POLICE 12/14P MOD GRWC XS4 KXCS SF. RAMAC #24587 GAUGE: 12 BARREL: 14" - PARKERIZED CHOKE: MODIFIED SIGHTS: GHOST RING REAR WILSON COMBAT; FRONT - XS CONTOUR BEAD SIGHT STOCK: KNOXX REDUCE RECOIL ADJUSTABLE STOCK FORE-END: SPEEDFEED SPORT-SOLID - 14" LOP are designated as the only shotguns authorized for ED based on compatibility with ED existing shotgun inventory, certified armor and combat training and protocol, maintenance, and parts.
The required date of delivery is March 22, 2010.

[lindajdunn]

I wonder why? Since when does the D.O.E. have police powers? Where do they use these shotguns since states have authority over schools? Based on the specs below, these are defensive weapons, with ultra short barrels (shorter than is legal for civilian ownership without special license/taxes). Are they expecting an assault on the D.O.E. offices in Washington?

Here's your answer:
http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seatt...gauge-shotguns

A spokesperson for the Department of Education says the guns are for use by officers with the agency’s Office of Inspector General. They have full federal law enforcement authority, and the IG’s office investigates “waste, fraud, abuse, and other criminal activity involving Federal education funds, programs, and operations.”

A detailed story is expected to be published in Gun Week:
http://www.gunweek.com/ Hopefully, more details will be available then.

[melensdad]

Ok, let me understand this correctly.

The D.O.E. needs guns to investigate fraud within the Educational system? A system that is, by law, unarmed. And they are delivering them to the Chicago office, a city which has significant gun restrictions and in a state that forbids guns on school property.

Would they not be better off employing forensic accountants/auditors to detect the fraud, waste and abuse?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

But...but...everyone knows that crime goes down in an inverse relationship to the amount of guns being carried.

Nothing motivates an assistant vice principal to up his school's test scores like seeing the cold eye of an Education Authority Enforcer peering at him through a ghost ring sight.

Just be glad they weren't ordering $13,000 20mm rifles like the FBI...

[Guided by Wire]

They need the shotguns to defend themselves from Tea Party nutjobs who want to violently and forcibly disassemble the federal government.

[melensdad]

They need the shotguns to defend themselves from Tea Party nutjobs who want to violently and forcibly disassemble the federal government.

Oh yea, those blue haired old ladies and their geezer husbands with white belts and matching white patent leather shoes are sure scary sights. But based on media photos they seem to be about 75% of the crowd at those events. Somehow I don't see them as the violent types. But PETA, ALF and SEA SHEPHERD seem to advocate violence.

[EldRick]

More likely, to keep the Chicago high-school classrooms under control.

[Slim]

Oh yea, those blue haired old ladies and their geezer husbands with white belts and matching white patent leather shoes are sure scary sights. But based on media photos they seem to be about 75% of the crowd at those events. Somehow I don't see them as the violent types. But PETA, ALF and SEA SHEPHERD seem to advocate violence.

Haha. Exactly.

A while back, I posted an RFQ that the IRS had put out looking for shotguns.

Tax cheats and truant kids are a lot more dangerous than one might think.

[telkanuru]

Oh yea, those blue haired old ladies and their geezer husbands with white belts and matching white patent leather shoes are sure scary sights. But based on media photos they seem to be about 75% of the crowd at those events. Somehow I don't see them as the violent types. But PETA, ALF and SEA SHEPHERD seem to advocate violence.

Don't look now, but you're making things up again.

[Hauptman]

Haha. Exactly.

A while back, I posted an RFQ that the IRS had put out looking for shotguns.

Tax cheats and truant kids are a lot more dangerous than one might think.

I know you're joking, but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and take a serious shot at this. (pun intended)

When you're working in an Audits & Investigations section of any department you are generally dealing with cases that have risen to the level of criminal activity. Now it may just be simple white collar crime requiring a lot of digging through paperwork, or it may be a front for some serious organized crime.

The pharmacy that is overcharging Medicaid by submitting phony claims could easily be walking away with millions of dollars a year. It could be a front for the Russian mob (it's been in the headlines); a very dangerous situation. Or it could just be a lone greedy pharmacist trying to cover his gambling debts, but I'll bet he could be very dangerous too when faced with a lengthy jail term.

The idea is that where there is big money involved the auditers could be walking into some very dangerous situations, and being armed, trained investigators is not a bad idea. They may just seem like accountants, but most also have police experience and/or Administration of Justice degrees.

However, I do think that those shotguns never see the light of day, and are probably a big waste of money. But I'm sure there is some long-standing policy about having them for all law enforcement personnel. One of the articles above did mention that they were purchasing for an existing inventory. Without the Internet this kind of purchase would never have gotten any attention, but things are obviously changing.

[melensdad]

Don't look now, but you're making things up again.

I'm happy to back up what I say, you seem to simply choose to disagree for the sake of showing your ignorance. So to show you your errors again, see below.

Eco-Violence: The Record, information from the Southern Policy Law Center http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...olence-the-rec

Sea Shepherd's Violent History: http://www.icrwhale.org/eng/history.pdf

Peaceful old people at a town hall meeting:


Old geezer *****ing at Arlen Spector:


Peaceful protest by the radical tea baggers:


PETA cartoon book for children, intended to be used in school:

[telkanuru]

Oh, look, it seems you need to study to keep up with the class again.

Also slightly confused as to how the supposed PETA ad advocates violence. It's certainly silly.

[keith]

Also slightly confused as to how the supposed PETA ad advocates violence. It's certainly silly.

Even more amusing is the site it came from.

[melensdad]

Also slightly confused as to how the supposed PETA ad advocates violence. It's certainly silly.

ALF is the radical arm of PETA. Perhaps you need to school yourself on the various groups and their affiliates.

[keith]

ALF is the radical arm of PETA. Perhaps you need to school yourself on the various groups and their affiliates.

*sticks up hand*

So how many degrees of separation count.

Should we assume you agree with everything on the targetofopportunity site because you link to it?

Just curious.

[melensdad]

*sticks up hand*

So how many degrees of separation count.

Should we assume you agree with everything on the targetofopportunity site because you link to it?

Just curious.

I knew the comic book existed and simply did a google image search to find a link that would provide it.

Here is another link, perhaps you'd like to link me to this group?
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/artic...ds-petas-pawns

Or this one? http://current.com/items/90944906_pe...-the-cover.htm


I could go on but there is no reason.

On the other hand there is more than a simple causal link between PETA and ALF and violent acts.

[keith]

On the other hand there is more than a simple causal link between PETA and ALF and violent acts.

So again I'll ask how many degrees of separation count?

I'm just curious here. You seem to have a curiously asymmetrical application of the implication.

If the ALF makes PETA a terrorist organisation, or at the very least a fellow traveler, then the same holds for tea party movement.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Want to discuss the casual causal link between the "Tree of Liberty" shirts favored by a number of the Tea bag/health care protesters and Timothy McVeigh?

How many government buildings has PETA obliterated? How many PETA protesters come to events openly packing heat?

That being said, those PETA cartoon books are silly. Funny, misguided. But silly.

[migopod]

Want to discuss the casual causal link between the "Tree of Liberty" shirts favored by a number of the Tea bag/health care protesters and Timothy McVeigh?

How many government buildings has PETA obliterated? How many PETA protesters come to events openly packing heat?

That being said, those PETA cartoon books are silly. Funny, misguided. But silly.

ALF/ELF mostly does a lot of arson and vandalism, probably because it's easier and cheaper to do than building sufficiently powerful explosive devices.

Mostly they seem to limit themselves to property damage and they're pretty lucky that they haven't accidentally killed anybody yet. Probably just a matter of time though.

[Philistine]

I'm not sure if returning to the orginal topic once a thread has drifted to hell and back actually counts as being off-topic or on-topic....

Here is the explanation for when and why the DOE has guns (it's from DOE's OIG site).

Tangentially, I've dealt with OIG a couple of times--and while they were a bit of a pain in the neck, I can happily report that there was no gunplay.

I could forsee circumstances in which an OIG agent might legitimately need to be armed with a shotgun. I can't forsee any though where 27 shotguns are needed in one city, even one as large as Chicago. I suspect (hope) that this is merely the initial place of delivery and they'll be distributed around the country.

--Philistine