Question About Saber Overglove

[fencerbill]

If you are wearing it properly then the glove goes on top of the lame. The overglove lies on top of the glove.

Rubbish, find me an FIE rule. And what the USFA puts into the athlete's packet of information does not constitute an FIE rule.

What this misguided practice of wearing the glove over the Lame often does is cut down on the required 4 cm contact between the inside of the glove/manchete and the Lame.

Pick the right size manchete and glove and it doesn't take much movement before no one will score a touch on your manchete. You just have to make sure there is the slightest contact while you test, give it a twitch and bingo.

Which would sure sound like cheating to me.

Did you ever see a referee check to see if there was the required 4 cm contact between the glove/manchete and the Lame?
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[Inquartata]

But if you're wearing a manchette with the non-conductive back of the hand 9thr space that used to be target), it cuts down on the chance of a blade going up under the cuff itself.

How? If a blade can slide up a sleeve, it can slide up a manchette, AFAICT.

If you are wearing it properly then the glove goes on top of the lame. The overglove lies on top of the glove.

So I have always heard, too, but as Bill says, which rule requires it?

[I_luv_saber]

Rubbish, find me an FIE rule. And what the USFA puts into the athlete's packet of information does not constitute an FIE rule.

So I have always heard, too, but as Bill says, which rule requires it?

I didn't read anything where he said it was an FIE rule, just the proper way to wear it.

Regarding safety, it certainly seems like a good idea. If you wear the glove beneath the lame with a manchete, it would seem to me the likelihood of the blade sliding up the lame after it's already slid up the machete is quite a bit higher. That is to say, if you wear a glove over the lame, a blade would have to slip up the manchete and then up the glove separately, not simply up the sleeve of the lame (which is covered by the glove's cuff).

Regarding fear of rules infractions, I disagree. It's the fencer's responsibility to conform to the rules and the referee's responsibility to ensure that that is being done. That has nothing to do with wearing the glove in a different manner, especially one that's arguably more safe. Because a ref may not check is a bogus reason, IMHO.

I have seen opponents do this and not have proper coverage. I noted this to the ref, and the fencer changed gloves to one with a shorter cuff. No big deal.

I'd also note that that's the reason I dislike the glove/manchete combos. I had a close call once where the blade slid up the little hole for the cord, went up my lame, and stopped alongside my elbow. Luckily, the blade did not break so all was good.

[Inquartata]

Regarding safety, it certainly seems like a good idea. If you wear the glove beneath the lame with a manchete, it would seem to me the likelihood of the blade sliding up the lame after it's already slid up the machete is quite a bit higher.

Why is that more dangerous? The lame is not protective equipment, and adds almost no resistance to a blade...

I had a close call once where the blade slid up the little hole for the cord, went up my lame, and stopped alongside my elbow. Luckily, the blade did not break so all was good.

Parry next time.

[I_luv_saber]

Why is that more dangerous? The lame is not protective equipment, and adds almost no resistance to a blade...

It just seems like a very bad idea to me to have a blade between the lame and jacket. I can think of a number of situations where this would lead to a blade breaking when it probably wouldn't have otherwise. Seems logical to me keeping a blade out from under your lame is a good thing....

Parry next time.

True! For that matter, I don't even need a mask - it would give me more incentive!

EDIT: IIRC, it was an (unsurprisingly) crappy parry... the blade skimmed off the guard and up the glove...

Also, upon further thinking, it would seem the combo jobs would have an even higher risk of the blade sliding up the protective jacket, which could be even worse...

[Inquartata]

That's the thing I don't like about the lame gloves: The Uhlmann one I have comes awfully close to imparting the Ivan Lee Effect at times. Talk about not making a legal lame-gauntlet connection...

( I have a LP one that's longer, AND the cuff closes with a velcro strip---so you can minimize the hole for the body cord, and it doesn't poof out as much as the elastic ones. It offers the best of both types. I just wish the lame wasn't that shiny goldish color LP so favors. )

[bigdawg2121]

Rubbish, find me an FIE rule. And what the USFA puts into the athlete's packet of information does not constitute an FIE rule.

What this misguided practice of wearing the glove over the Lame often does is cut down on the required 4 cm contact between the inside of the glove/manchete and the Lame.

Pick the right size manchete and glove and it doesn't take much movement before no one will score a touch on your manchete. You just have to make sure there is the slightest contact while you test, give it a twitch and bingo.

Which would sure sound like cheating to me.

Did you ever see a referee check to see if there was the required 4 cm contact between the glove/manchete and the Lame?
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Yeah, yeah can't say I wasn't expecting this. No rule formally requires this. Reading the rules would, however, seem to imply it fairly clearly. The glove in saber and it's lame covering are together treated as one article of clothing in the rules whether said covering is removable or not. If the covering isn't removable then obviously the cuff goes over lame and jacket. If it is then the lack of a formal specification allows one some choice; I'd argue that this is unitentional but vague enough to preclude it from being a
cardable offense. As for the overlap I've generally found that gloves over lames work perfectly well with over gloves on top of them. Honestly, what's the purpose of the overlap if it's not to ensure that contact is made while the over-glove sits atop the glove? Are we just so paranoid that we think 5cm of direct contact are required for touches to be scored? Also why is it an over-glove and not an over-lame or lame extension? Regardless, a loop attached to the lame does not meet these requirements. It does provide a direct opening forthe blade to travel into the opening of your sleeve and get trapped or break. This is in fact not entirely safe and is part of the reason why we have gloves; there shouldn't be such openings or they should be minimized. Fortunately as long as your lame comes up to your wrist your opponents probably don't care. If they don't care the ref probably doesn't care. If no one cares it's easier to let the crotchety old guy with a loop on his lame to fence than make a big deal of it. I'd be tempted to do the same. Not sure I would allow it but definitely a temptation.

[VorpalCat]

I just wish the lame wasn't that shiny goldish color LP so favors. )

A can of white spray paint will take care of that plenty quick.

[fencerbill]

If no one cares it's easier to let the crotchety old guy with a loop on his lame to fence than make a big deal of it.

Who squealed on me? Now everyone will know who I am.

[Inquartata]

That train has already left the station.