Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

edew · 12-20-2002, 01:06 PM

FDR said, "the only thing to fear is fear itself" (which is good sound-bite, but really doesn't mean much). Seems like Dubya's quote will be, "the only thing to fear is....ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING!!!! Run like hell and check everything!! I'm scared sh*tless!"

Anyway, the Transportation Security Agency (or whatever the TLA for TSA means) will start checking ALL checked-in bags starting December 31 (two+ weeks from now). If you lock your bag, they will break the lock.

What ramifications will this have for fencers? What I'm seeing is a lot of missing equipment, especially tools. Got a nice Leatherman multiplier tool? Oops. It's not there. Got a nice set of needle-nose pliers or wire cutters. Hmmm... Mr. TSA grunt, who's working for $7.00/hr just got a nice set of tools for a belated Christmas present.

At the moment, there's no recourse if contents turn up missing.

Wonderful leadership for this country, eh?

DHCJr · 12-20-2002, 01:21 PM

I saw the article also. They won't physically open every bag, just the ones that shows a positive on detecting for explosives. Here is two of the items NOT to put in your bags, Chocolate and cheese. They have a tendancy to give false positives. They do suggest using cable ties and if they open your bag, they will put in a note saying they did and seal it back up.

Here is an article from CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/12/19....ap/index.html

sallearmourer · 12-20-2002, 02:24 PM

I guess they won't be flying in many armourers into NAC. If tools start disappearing. I won't keep my toolbox unlock.

The number of different types of test boxes can show up as a wired device.

Tim

Artisan · 12-20-2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sallearmourer
I guess they won't be flying in many armourers into NAC. If tools start disappearing. I won't keep my toolbox unlock.

The number of different types of test boxes can show up as a wired device.

Tim

Reminds me of thetime several years ago, when going to Atlanta for the Olympics as part of a camera crew. One of our technicians insisted on carrying on his Primary tool case (which had about $10k worth of special gear) ... I had a hard time not busting out in laughter when we went through the carry-on baggage screener, and his case, which weighed about #38 lit up the screen looking like a mad scientist's collection of wires, electronics, and doo dads. He nearly missed the plane while they had him turn on - or boot up every osciloscope, meter, device, heat gun, etc. They confiscated his mini butane soldering iron, but left him with the 8 oz refill cannister (and cig. lighter)- go figure.

This was in '96. And then "they" had a field day with that poor sap of a rent-a-cop, Richard Jewel...

And by the way... Speaking of security... At one venue where I was working, a case of imported beer in a cooler usually helped speed the search of our vehicles when entering the venue for set up. Once the prohibited "contraband" was found, the search ended and we passed thru. We learned to put the cooler on top so they could "find" it right away...good old Army Rangers...

edew · 12-20-2002, 07:01 PM

The article I read said that EVERY bag will be searched. The reason every bag will be searched is because they don't have enough machines to do the automated search.

I find automated search to have questionable probabilities of false positives and false negatives (more that people interpreting the data will make mistakes, rather than the machines themselves).

As for the last anecdote, that's precisely the path we're headed. Basically, they're just another middleman to "tip" to get our bags into the plane. It used to be, if you want quicker service, you can use curbside check-in and tip the baggage guy $1 per bag. He was happy, because he could easily load 100 bags a plane, and with perhaps 10 planes a day, he made bux loading your bag for your convenience of curbside check-in. But his service was optional: you could always stand in line and check your bags in without having to tip.

Now, we have a "required" middleman, and if you don't "tip" with something nice, expect them to help themselves to their tip. Hex wrench anyone?

Zelda · 12-20-2002, 08:19 PM

Please Please Please dont let Australia become so paranoid. As it is we now have to take our laptops OUT of the carry case to go through the hand baggage x-ray. Least I can still lock my bags without fear. Though I dont know what the x-ray guys will make of the cooler bag I am taking home today.

edew · 12-20-2002, 09:40 PM

We already have to take laptops out of their carrying cases.

Inquartata · 12-20-2002, 10:50 PM

Great. Now we can have the baggage INSPECTORS stealing our belongings, in addition to the baggage HANDLERS.

And they thought the airlines were in financial trouble now---wait until "60 Minutes" does their first expose on luggage rifling by these guys...

I don't believe that it is logistically possible to search every bag, however. No matter how many people you hire. Unless you really want to slow the system to a crawl.

civiltech · 01-02-2003, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zelda
Please Please Please dont let Australia become so paranoid. As it is we now have to take our laptops OUT of the carry case to go through the hand baggage x-ray. Least I can still lock my bags without fear. Though I dont know what the x-ray guys will make of the cooler bag I am taking home today.

It's coming!

It has been stated on the CBC here in Canada that luggage cannot be locked anymore. In fact, the inspectors or police (or whatever the title is) will now have the right to break open locks to get into luggage if need be. These are part of Canada's NTSB safety regulations following the US's tougher laws. I'm sure the rest of the terror targets will follow suit, if not, already have instituted tougher regulations!

What a world we live in!

civiltech · 01-03-2003, 08:41 AM

Just a further note.....Any flight continuing from a Canadian destination to a US destination has to be checked again!

What I mean is a flight from Vancouver to Toronto the luggage is checked. If that flight is a continuing flight to a US destination, ALL the luggage must be checked again prior to the flight leaving for the US. Not just the new luggage going on the plane in Toronto. Any flight going into the US now has to be checked. Period!

135711 · 01-07-2003, 02:10 PM

after moving i can tell you of my awful experiences at the airport:

first, they allowed three middle easterners to pass through a baggage line without a word, lined me up with the bad guys and i had to empty out all of my stuff. i finally flipped and told the jerk at the counter, who had just opened up my LIPSTICK to examine it for heaven sake, and said, "THATS ENOUGH, I want a real baggage examiner here" Then I carefully, took the stuff out and showed it to them. I was very pissed. They also tried to examine my Gohonzon, a Buddhist scroll which is sacred. I can't put my own fingers on it, no one else is supposed to touch it, I totally flipped. I am especially pissed off today: I got on a bus and I have my fencing stuff with me, and everyone wants to see the bag, but two lunatics got on the bus, after sleeping out of doors and carrying both a grudge and heavy black bags, get on without a blink.

My new place is nice, but I miss my old place and I feel sad that I won't get to fence california again.

PeterGustafsson · 01-07-2003, 08:41 PM

Hi!

On how to stop stealing:

Method 1: Take a bunch of underwear, smudge with a bar of chocolate in appropriate place. Put several of these close to valuables. Hope that baggage inspector´s percieved self interest will do the trick.

Method 2: Drill hole in leatherman, and other valuables. Drill hole in inside of suitcase. Run a chain through holes, and lock chain with a padlock. Contents become perfectly inspectable, but require tools for stealing. Proably will deter most thieves-to-be except the most determined. This method also leaves physical proof, if done correctly.

Any other good ideas?

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

135711 · 01-08-2003, 05:15 PM

The only reason they're checking is for explosives, in light of recent events, we need to make a few sacrifices, and maybe select our fencing competitions more selectively. drive up and down the coast for example a few days ahead of schedule and rest for a day, then fence, and drive back. you only need to fly out to a few things per year. maybe if usfa uses one carrier exclusively, they may be able to work out some understanding with them. but the airlines would need some training on what to look for. teams should have one designated fencer/coach or captain to take responsibility for the amorer's equipment, while individuals should think about packing fencing clothes in separate containers than their weapons. It's clear that they need training, anyone who needs to examine a small lipstick case for 'hidden explosives' while, allowing large unexamined peices to slip through has something wrong with them. [too much james bond]

DHCJr · 01-08-2003, 05:37 PM

Security has been taken out of the hands of the airlines, so going to just one airline won't do anything. Airports like LAX did have the airline worry about their own terminal for the most part. The exception was the International terminal and some of the small airlines that did not have their own terminal. Denver on the other hand where all the terminals are interconnected, security was never based on the airline.

Also, if you are in the center of the country, driving might be an option. But take the example of a family of 4, all fence, one a youth and one a Junior. We just had Saratoga, consider this family was from Los Angeles area, we are talking about at least an extra week to drive round trip and then there is Louisville, Greenville, Orlando, etc. For many driving is not an option. I for one don't have that much vacation. Even with flying, there are a number of days off without pay.

It is not just explosives, they are also checking for other banned items also. The problem with the explosives, is the number of false positives for things like Chocolate and Cheese. What other items will cause them to open up the bags? I don't know.

There are also a number of individuals, who may not go with a club. My feeling is if they are going to open up the bags, do it in front of the owners. I would much rather stand in line, then lose things through theft.

I don't know if anyone heard of the pilot test, with all TCA Federal screeners and all the thefts.

135711 · 01-08-2003, 05:47 PM

whatever, still, you should have seen the guy, i thought he was a norm in the beginning, but the more he went through my stuff the worse he got......[must've been my arpege - yuk yuk]
and for the other one: did you check my friends web site? she really is a plastic surgeon and as a ex-fencer, could be of assistance to your friend, even if she couldn't do the work herself, others may be able to. by the way, my cousin was born with cleft palate and deviated septum, which his surgeon took care of perfectly. please look into her site, she is totally brilliant

135711 · 01-08-2003, 05:53 PM

i see your point about driving with a bunch of kids in a van, but, the thing would be to select your competitions. florida's a smaller state than california, and probably doesn't have as many fencers, so you look for more fencers for more competitions, or buy a mobile unit and drive each other insane for an entire year.

sallearmourer · 01-09-2003, 11:16 PM

Well the did go thought Joe Toolbox and bill Murphy as well on the way to Saratoga Springs. Nothing missing but all of bill little bags were left unzipper

PeterGustafsson · 01-11-2003, 12:21 PM

Hi!

Would it not be possible to, in advance of large of large competitions, write recommended letters to security depts. at the appropriate airports? Letters should include competition particulars (time&place) approximate number of competitors, pictures of weapons, and repair stuff. Explanations to everything.

If prewarned, the fear of the unknown - on thier part - should be less.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

sallearmourer · 01-11-2003, 01:49 PM

Ask me about driving across country with kids. do it once a month. To Saratogo Springs with 3 teenagers and a 10 year old.
No wonder I am going insane. By the way the trip was worth it my 10 year daugther Hannah took 3rd in y 10 we.

Tim

135711 · 01-11-2003, 02:10 PM

i thinkwe should either want to be fencers, and satisfy ourselves with the small amount of personal satisfaction we get from the sport, and just play along with the rules and regs of flying in america now, orrrrrr, drop it and become bakers. we can't have everything, not even in america. you know, i see it now; after shopping for 4 years, i can see that perhaps my priorities were a little skewed. i have new foils and epees, and all new fencing stuff, but it took me forever just to get some furnture for the apartment, on the other hand, i rented a furnished place last time, it's a good thing i'm not homicidal, so far, i've managed to keep my self relatively calm.