Handmedown saber mask

[Densoro]

My grandma ran across an old mask today at an auction, brought it home for me. I noticed after a while that the inside is rusted, but not so badly that it rubs off on my hands of I rub around in it. Is there any way for me to salvage the rest of it while removing the rusted layer of the mesh?

[jkdjeff]

I don't fence saber but I can't imagine the answer to your question would be anything other than "absolutely not".

The mesh is probably significantly weakened by the corrosion, and your face is a dangerous thing to play with.

Put it up on a shelf as a display piece.

[DHCJr]

First before we go over rehabilitating it, let us first make sure it is worth it.

If you know an experienced Armorer have them check it out if it is safe. Let us say you don't know one, there are things that you can check.

Look at the bib. Are there any holes?

You didn't say if it was electric Sabre or standard. If it is electric, does the bib have any green or missing metalic threads.

If it is not electric, then it would make a nice trophy.

Run your hand over the outside of the mask. Are there any large dents.

Next, hold the mask up to the light. What you are looking for are irregularities. Are there a lot of wires pushed out of place.

Look at the spaces in the mesh. The maximum distance between the wires is 2.1 mm, which is less than 1/10".

But before you use it, get it checked by an Armorer.

[jkdjeff]

Ignore me, listen to the experienced armorer guy.

[DHCJr]

Ignore me, listen to the experienced armorer guy.

No, I happen to agree with you. We must have been writing at the same time. Mine was just longer, but look at the last sentence.

I would worry about wearing it without it being properly tested.

Densoro, you didn't state where you are located. If known, suggestions on who to talk to in your area are available.

One of the things the Armorers agree on, maybe the only thing, is that we are here for you the fencer and our first, last and always job is to keep the sport as safe as possible.

[Densoro]

Er...^^; Sorry to say I'm not sure if it's normal or electric. Never been to a competition before, and even then, I'm an epee fencer. I just decided not to look a gifthorse in the mouth when my grandma presented me with this; if the only duelling I do is in my front yard, it shouldn't make much difference.
All that said, I'm pretty sure it's standard.

The bib's in fine shape from what I can tell. Seems to be leather, has a smooth surface but lots of strength in the actual fiber. And it's all intact.

No dents that I can find, nor any wires out of place. The pattern of the mesh looks 100% perfect to me.

Does that rundown help at all?

EDIT: I'm in the Antelope Valley, California.

[Purple Fencer]

Er...^^; Sorry to say I'm not sure if it's normal or electric. Never been to a competition before, and even then, I'm an epee fencer. I just decided not to look a gifthorse in the mouth when my grandma presented me with this; if the only duelling I do is in my front yard, it shouldn't make much difference.
All that said, I'm pretty sure it's standard.

The bib's in fine shape from what I can tell. Seems to be leather, has a smooth surface but lots of strength in the actual fiber. And it's all intact.

No dents that I can find, nor any wires out of place. The pattern of the mesh looks 100% perfect to me.

Does that rundown help at all?

EDIT: I'm in the Antelope Valley, California.

Sounds like a foil/epee mask.

I'm the closest actual armorer to you (Panorama City...The Valley)...if you're able to come down the 14, let me know...I work in Granada Hills Tuesday and Friday evenings (shorter trip than going to Burbank).

You could also show the mask to Antek Ignatowicz in Quartz Hill....I THINK he's teaching at Highland HS. Lemme know if you want his email addy.

[Densoro]

You could also show the mask to Antek Ignatowicz in Quartz Hill

omg I love you off the bat for knowing that name. Mr. I was my coach back when I could afford it =D Great guy. Glad he's got some lasting recognition, the man deserves it.

And would this really be an epee mask? o_o I thought that saber went for the bare steel thing because of the way the scoring system works, electrifying the whole blade. Whereas epee just puts a button on the tip.

[Purple Fencer]

omg I love you off the bat for knowing that name. Mr. I was my coach back when I could afford it =D Great guy. Glad he's got some lasting recognition, the man deserves it.

Even better, I can pronounce his name correctly!

A bit heavy-handed the last time i sparred with him in sabre, tho...I felt one of those hits for a week! If you fenced at Phoenyx you probably know me...I used to come up on some Monday nights with my sales gear!

And would this really be an epee mask? o_o I thought that saber went for the bare steel thing because of the way the scoring system works, electrifying the whole blade. Whereas epee just puts a button on the tip.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but epee doesn't have a defined target like foil and sabre...any hit counts....so it makes sense for foil and epee to use the same mask, as they don't have the same issues as sabre.

[Densoro]

Hm...I fenced Fridays at the studio, but I saw an armorer there once or twice. Guy with glasses, would that be you?

[DHCJr]

Did you mean the bib was leather or covering on the outside of the mask?

If the latter, is it one big piece or 2 pieces one at the back around the frame and a second where the side meets the front?

If the first, it is Sabre. If second it is a Epee. Sam, I wouldn't guess a Foil/Epee because from his description the mesh appears to be uninsulated.

What is the color of the leather? If brown, it is probably a Santelli. which considering how long they have been out of business, it is some trophy. Castello made some brown, but they mostly used white, but they are even older. White ones were produced by a number of companies.

I can't think of any leather masks that were produced after the 12K punch. The 7K yes.

If there is a name on it, that could help.

[Purple Fencer]

Hm...I fenced Fridays at the studio, but I saw an armorer there once or twice. Guy with glasses, would that be you?

Nope....I only came up on Mondays....the guy you saw might be the guy from Thrust...I think he does some armoring.

See if you can bring the mask my way.

[Densoro]

DHC, I meant the bib is leather. White, as is the covering you were talking about. It seems to be two pieces, unless that seam's normal for a one-piece covering...

But...from what I can tell, you mean it's really really old then? o:

[Purple Fencer]

DHC, I meant the bib is leather. White, as is the covering you were talking about. It seems to be two pieces, unless that seam's normal for a one-piece covering...

But...from what I can tell, you mean it's really really old then? o:

Bring it to me and I'll let you know.

[SJCFU#2]

Unless the mask has heavy, thick leather running across the top (either a band over the trim or a large piece extending over the entire mask) it was probably originally intended for use with foil or epee (most of the older masks I've seen had bare mesh, regardless of weapon - including the ancient Uhlmann mask which I started with, the memory of which makes me shudder).

Regardless of type, based on what I'm reading here it seems likely that while this mask might be used for a planter, pasta strainer, trophy on the wall or even a Halloween costume, any individual who trusts their health and well being to it when fencing might very well qualify as a candidate for a Darwin award.

edit: be sure to check the side mesh - I have an old Castello sitting on the shelf where the front mesh might hold up to a 12K punch on the front but the side mesh won't even slow down the proble.

[migopod]

Unless the mask has heavy, thick leather running across the top (either a band over the trim or a large piece extending over the entire mask) it was probably originally intended for use with foil or epee (most of the older masks I've seen had bare mesh, regardless of weapon - including the ancient Uhlmann mask which I started with, the memory of which makes me shudder).

Regardless of type, based on what I'm reading here it seems likely that while this mask might be used for a planter, pasta strainer, trophy on the wall or even a Halloween costume, any individual who trusts their health and well being to it when fencing might very well qualify as a candidate for a Darwin award.

edit: be sure to check the side mesh - I have an old Castello sitting on the shelf where the front mesh might hold up to a 12K punch on the front but the side mesh won't even slow down the proble.

I'd argue against use as a pasta strainer unless you like rust flakes in your pasta

Other nice things to look for when determining the age of a mask are things like presence or absence of an elastic band (or points where one might once have been affixed) on the back and the size of the bib.

I know a few people who still use masks made during the 20th century, but mostly things like Prieur and other FIE ones.

Old masks are really cool for display purposes though.

[oiuyt]

I'd argue against use as a pasta strainer unless you like rust flakes in your pasta

Enhanced with extra iron. It's a feature.

-B

[Inquartata]

Don't get too oxided about it, Brad.