FIE directives for 2010-2011 Season (which the USFA could not wait for)

[gladius]

From the FIE to the national federations (it includes the USFA)

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...2-10%20ang.pdf

!9 February, 2010

Dear President,

As you know, the competition calendar of the FIE was to undergo a
profound, thorough revision, as was requested by the federations on
several occasions. A working group was created within the Executive
Committee in view of a complete review of the calendar.

The attached calendars and urgent decisions have been unanimously
approved by the Executive Committee at its February 6, 2010 meeting
in Lausanne.

We are aware that this calendar presents significant changes to which
the federations will have to adapt. But this reform is essential for the
athletes’ health and the credibility of our calendar.

1) General principles

a) Junior and senior calendar

There are now only 8 competitions in total (instead of 14) in each
junior and senior weapon of the calendars. This entails the
cancellation of 40% of the competitions, and for some federations, the
cancellation of their only competition.

Some "reserve competitions" have been established in each weapon.
These "reserve competitions" will automatically substitute for the
regular competitions in case one of the regular competitions is
cancelled or if its organisation has not been satisfactory.

b) Senior calendar

- a maximum of 3 competitions per federation
- in each weapon, 5 World Cup competitions and 3 Grand Prix
competitions
- the 5 team World Cup competitions are organised together with the 5
individual World Cup competitions
- the 3 Grand Prix competitions are no longer linked to a team
competition.

c) Junior calendar

There is a maximum of 4 competitions per federation.

a) Competitions are held at least every 15 days, i.e. twice a month.

b) Competition dates are fixed and do not change. The Grand Prix
competitions must be held Saturday-Sunday; The individual and team
World Cup competitions must be held from Friday to Sunday (starting
with the individual competition).

c) The junior season (November to February) and senior season
(February to June, with one-month rest in April) are more clearly
separated, which will:
- Allow Junior athletes to compete in the senior competitions
- Make it easier to find observers and referees
- Avoid federations having to divide their resources every weekend, in
terms of technical officials (coaches, referees, doctors, heads of
delegation, etc.).

3) Uniformity

In order that all senior competitions on the calendar benefit from the
same conditions, Individual World Cups, Team World Cups and Grand
Prix must have a refereeing delegate and referees nominated by the
FIE, as well as use video refereeing.

To compensate for the expenses incurred, the registration fees will be
modified (see information letter 1-10, financial item for the 2010
General Assembly).

4) Modifications of the Rules

Pursuant to the modifications made to the calendars, the Executive
Committee has modified the following principles from the Rules:

- taking into account of the competitions in the junior, senior and
team rankings;
- competition coefficient;
- referees for the competitions.

These modifications are reflected in the attached urgent decisions
taken by the Executive Committee, which will be explained at the
Calendar meeting planned for April 1, 2010 in Baku (AZE) .

5) Confirmations

The national federations are therefore kindly asked to please email
the following address calendrier@fie.ch by 10 March 2010 to confirm:

- The competitions they will organise
- That they accept the dates of the competitions
- That they accept to organise the individual World Cup competition
with the team World Cup competition
- That they accept to organise the Grand Prix competition(s)
attributed to them, according to the FIE specifications for the Grand
Prix.

Alisher Usmanov
President

Links to the proposed junior and senior schedule 2010-2011:

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2..._2010-2011.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2..._2010-2011.pdf

Now the fun begins. Waht will the USFA bid for the international competitions? What impact with our urgently approved domestic calendar?

Questions, questions looking for answers (the intelligent kind).

[eac]

Out of context, this seems remarkably like a change that makes a fair amount of sense. Can it be?

[gladius]

Here is the link for the changes to the rules for next season (o.81 to o.84)

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...0-11%20ang.pdf

[fdad]

So I guess the Vega/Dallas/NYC Senior Foil World Cup is cancelled and not even a reserve

BTW, according to the note, the FIE EC meeting where all of this was decided happened before the USFA BoD meeting.

[teacup]

Junior Olympics might be the same weekend as proposed Junior WCs for all six weapons and senior events for women's foil and men's sabre.

From the USFA website:
NAC A Division I/II/Veteran & Team
October 15-18, 2010
NAC B Junior/Cadet/Y14 & Team
November 12-15, 2010
NAC C Division I/Junior/Cadet & Team
January 14-17, 2011
Junior Olympics Junior/Cadet & Team
February 18-21, 2011
NAC D* Division II/III /Veteran & Team
March 11-14, 2011

[teacup]

So I guess the Vega/Dallas/NYC Senior Foil World Cup is cancelled and not even a reserve

BTW, according to the note, the FIE EC meeting where all of this was decided happened before the USFA BoD meeting.

Senior WF/MF in Montreal, Sr. MS/WS in New York in June.

[fdad]

If Junior Olympics are held on President's Day weekend 2011, they will be the same weekend as a proposed Junior WCs for all six weapons and senior events for women's foil and men's sabre.

Sounds like our one and only National Championship for Juniors and Cadets is unlikely to have our 12 best Juniors (who are often also Cadets).

[pillow]

If Junior Olympics are held on President's Day weekend 2011, they will be the same weekend as a proposed Junior WCs for all six weapons and senior events for women's foil and men's sabre.

Interesting how the FIE split up the mega JWC Budapest, isn't it?

[fdad]

Senior WF/MF in Montreal, Sr. MS/WS in New York in June.

Having it in Montreal is the difference between 30 US entrants and 12.

[mdstasinos]

BTW, according to the note, the FIE EC meeting where all of this was decided happened before the USFA BoD meeting.

And we were not able to receive that information from that FIE meeting until they officially to published and released it and there was no indication when that would be.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association

[gladius]

Out of context, this seems remarkably like a change that makes a fair amount of sense. Can it be?

I personally believe that what the FIE has done makes sense from their point of view because it addressed two real and well defined problems: cost and stress/fatigue for the fencers caused by a calendar with events not equally spaced during the season

Problem 1 was addressed with a REDUCTION of events. Notice that costs refer to what fencers and their federations had to pony up, not revenues the organizing federation was projecting from very well attended and run events (the business model espoused by the USFA).

Problem 2 was that there were events unevenly spread throughout the season and there are two somewhat overlapping international seasons: junior which was September to April and senior which was January to June/July.

The major change and that which indeed affects our calendar the most (voted on 2 weeks ago) is the junior season which now is November to February.

For our fencers there is a problem now that it becomes impossible to hit two events in 10 days since now the competitions are separated by 2 weeks. Not bad if you live in Europe, not good for our fencers.

For each weapons this is what our junior fencers can look forward to:

WE: all event in Europe but for one in Israel February 19-20
ME: all events in Europe but for one in Montreal December 18-19
WF: all events in Europe but for one in Montreal December 18-19
MF: all events in Europe but for one in Montreal December 18-19
WS: most event in Europe but for one in Montreal December 18-19, one in USA January 22-23, and one in Venezuela February 5-6
MS: all events in Europe but for one in Iran (???) December 18-19 and one in Venezuela February 5-6

The senior season is more evenly spread around the world with

MS and WS one event in US June 24-26
MF one event in Montreal June 17-19
WF one event in Montreal June 24-26
ME one event in Buenos Aires June 17-19
WE one event in Rio de Janeiro May 6-8 and one in Havana May 20-22

Questions:

1. What input, if any did the USFA have in this process?

2. Who proposed what from our side?

3. Happy with this outcome?

[mdstasinos]

Junior Olympics might be the same weekend as proposed Junior WCs for all six weapons and senior events for women's foil and men's sabre.

From the USFA website:
NAC A Division I/II/Veteran & Team
October 15-18, 2010
NAC B Junior/Cadet/Y14 & Team
November 12-15, 2010
NAC C Division I/Junior/Cadet & Team
January 14-17, 2011
Junior Olympics Junior/Cadet & Team
February 18-21, 2011
NAC D* Division II/III /Veteran & Team
March 11-14, 2011

October was the major change in the schedule. November has floating weekends and traditionally it has alternated between the first and second weekend. January and February has always been fixed on the holiday weekends to lessen time off work and from school. NAC D has floated in March trying to minimize the NCAA conflicts. NAC E in April has always floated between the 3rd and 4th weekend of April because of the dates For the Junior World Championships.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association

[gladius]

And we were not able to receive that information from that FIE meeting until they officially to published and released it and there was no indication when that would be.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association

Mark, don't we have a rep in the Executive Committee of the FIE by the name of Sunil Sabharwal? Wasn't he there? And if he wasn't there, didn't he contribute to the discussions/negotiations which preceded the meeting?

[pillow]

I don't think it makes a darn bit of difference for the JWC events, as the designated events for the majority of weapons (I believe) have always been the European competitions. If Montreal has been designated in the past, hasn't the SF been quite low anyway?

[mdstasinos]

Mark, don't we have a rep in the Executive Committee of the FIE by the name of Sunil Sabharwal? Wasn't he there? And if he wasn't there, didn't he contribute to the discussions/negotiations which preceded the meeting?

Yes, Sunil is a Member of the FIE EC; Yes, he was there; and Yes he contributed to the meeting. He also told us it was not going to be official until it was published, which is normal business procedure.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US FEncing Association

[teacup]

Having it in Montreal is the difference between 30 US entrants and 12.

That's true, although we didn't fill our quotas.

I don't think it makes a darn bit of difference for the JWC events, as the designated events for the majority of weapons (I believe) have always been the European competitions. If Montreal has been designated in the past, hasn't the SF been quite low anyway?

One of the reasons that the Montreal Jr World Cup is weak is because the US doesn't make it a designated event for all weapons. (But that is another thread.)

Whether it is designated by the US or not, US fencers do have the opportunity to receive FIE points which are important for seeding.

[teacup]

October was the major change in the schedule. November has floating weekends and traditionally it has alternated between the first and second weekend. January and February has always been fixed on the holiday weekends to lessen time off work and from school. NAC D has floated in March trying to minimize the NCAA conflicts. NAC E in April has always floated between the 3rd and 4th weekend of April because of the dates For the Junior World Championships.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association

October was a major change in which events were held not which weekend. Although you stated that the change was made so that there were more weekends to choose from in October, it appears that the NAC will continue to be hosted on Columbus Day/Canadian Thanksgiving weekend.

While JOs have always been over the President's Day holiday weekend, junior world cups haven't been on that weekend.

One of the reasons given to cancel the December Div I was so as not to conflict with junior and cadet world cups, so wouldn't the same logic follow that JOs should be moved so as not to conflict with junior world cups, especially since JOs are junior and cadet events?

(I am not saying that we should have an event in December, just that isn't this potential conflict more problematic?)

[misha]

Yes, Sunil is a Member of the FIE EC; Yes, he was there; and Yes he contributed to the meeting. He also told us it was not going to be official until it was published, which is normal business procedure.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US FEncing Association

So the board could have looked at an unofficial version and
used it as a potential target.

The proposition to have 5 WC + 3 GP were known to everyone who cared.

Why the board chose not to use it is beyond any reason.

I wander what BS reasons we will hear now...

.

[pillow]

That's true, although we didn't fill the quotas.



One of the reasons that the Montreal Jr World Cup is weak is because the US doesn't make it a designated event for all weapons. (But that is another thread.)

The reason the Montreal event is weak, even if it is designated, is because the European and Asian fencers do not attend.

[KidLazy]

Yes, Sunil is a Member of the FIE EC; Yes, he was there; and Yes he contributed to the meeting. He also told us it was not going to be official until it was published, which is normal business procedure.

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US FEncing Association

Ah, so it is known. What is USFA's contingency plan if it does become offical?