Help with language problem.

[Rashunda]

Hi everyone,

Let me preface my statement by saying that I am American, but I am not the type of American that goes to a foreign country expecting the locals to speak English. I believe the key to learning and enjoying a culture is learning its language. I'm just in a weird situation. Now, on to the story.

I live in Switzerland where there are four national languages, one being German. Even though German is one of the national languages hardly any of the folks in this area speak it. They speak "Swiss German", which is totally different than German. Even some people from Germany can't understand it. It's a local dialect that's extremely hard. Most newcomers are told to learn German (called "High German") first and then go on to Swiss German. That's why I'm learning German now.

I took a course at a fencing club here. I loved the people and I found it to be one of the best ones in Zürich. I'm thinking of becoming a member. The problem is that last year when I signed up for the course, the president of the club and I made an agreement that the coach would speak High German so I could follow what was going on. Most Swiss German speakers know High German as a second language. It's hard for them to speak it, but they know it. Even the coach agreed.

When I got into the class, that agreement lasted about 10 minutes. The coach slipped back into Swiss German and I had no idea what was going on. I just followed the movements. I got tired of trying to remind him that I didn't understand SG so I just shut up and stuck with the 6-week course.

I would like to become a member of this club but I'm leery of the language problem. Should I just wait until my Swiss German is better? Should I stick it out again? Shoot, I have to learn it sometime anyway, but it's hard for me to concentrate on fencing when I have to guess at what the coach is saying.

All thoughts are welcome.

Thanks and best wishes,
Rashunda

[Zelda]

When you have lessons it may be a problem. For free bouting it shouldnt be as most times you can work out who has got the point form the hand signals (if used). Besides they always say being totally imerssed in a language is the best way to learn!! I would say stick with it. Talk to the president of the club again and tell him you still want lessons but really are not the good on the Swiss German thus is there any way you can either 1. get a translator or 2. remind the coach during induvdual lessons you need some extra help. Hang in there......it will work out.

[haggis]

I'm with Zelda. Stick with it. If you're going to have to learn Swiss German anyway you might as well learn it while doing something you enjoy. It may be hard but nothing ingratiates you with the locals more than learning their language. During individual lessons, looking blank should enough of a reminder for the coach that your Swiss German is still less than perfect. I've given a few lessons to people who didn't speak English very well (I don't mean the Scots I coach ) and it's very quickly obvious when something hasn't been understood.

Good luck

Haggis

[nahouw]

I say definitely stick with it. I just sent you a private message -- check your private messages for more details.

[Jason]

I had a similar problem in Poland.
I was enrolled in the fencing master course at the Academy of Physical Education in Katowice, but I didn't speak much Polish--and I certainly wasn't familiar with the various methodological, pedogogical, psychological, etc., terms in Polish.
After a while (mind you, I was there for 3 and a half years), not only did I learn the assorted terminology, but I found that it really helped enrich my everyday use of Polish as well.

If I didn't understand something during a lecture, for example, I would go up to Czajkowski (who speaks English) after class and get him to go over some of the more confusing points with me.
If your High German is good enough, you might try something like this with your instructor.

[Spanky McFarland]

A good friend of mine, Kristian Kramer, fences in Zurich. If you are fortunate enough to be in the same club as him, speak to him about your problem. He is German, and always complains about Swiss German. Having a few other people to remind the coach that you can't understand Swiss German might help. However, I don't think the entire club should be conducted in High German just to suit you, but any individual lessons you get should be.

Anyhoo, if it's the same club, tell Kristian that Michael told him to do what you say, and also that he still has woman's legs and should wear skirts to show them off.

[I see dead people]

What? Swedish people don't speak American? Bomb them!!

[Rashunda]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and support. I guess I'll stick it out. Spanky, I'll look for your friend...and check out the legs too.:-)

[lochinvar]

Originally posted by I see dead people
What? Swedish people don't speak American? Bomb them!!

Shhhh!! Keep your voice down!
George Dub-yah might hear you and decide to do just that!

(Um, what do the speak in Sweden? High German? Swedish German? I can never remember...)

[Catlady]

Schweitzer-Deutsch is the pits, I agree. I'm an American, in America, but I've taken quite a bit of German-- it was my minor in college, though it's now been a few years and I'm out of practice. As with all dialects, you can tell they're speaking German, but haven't the vaguest idea exactly what they're saying. If they understand Hoch Deutsch you should be okay, if he--the coach--slips into Schweitzer Deutsch, a simple wie bitte? should suffice I'd think. We have club members here who speak different languages and have our share of misunderstanding-- a Hungarian girl and adult men who speak Portugeuse and French respectively, as well as a coach from Ukraine-- but usually we manage to resolve it. Much of fencing is universal anyway. And they say that immersion is the best way to learn a language. Not that I envy you the task, but that's what I'm told.

As an added note, I had a German phonetics course as part of my minor--I though I didn't have an accent, then heard myself on tape and wanted to crawl under something and die--the instructor was a nice guy and a native German speaker. What was funny was you could name a part of Germany or a German speaking country and he could go on forever about their crimes against the German language.

Finally, and I know you're not interested, but my great- great-grandmother was born in the Zurich area--her maiden name was Bosshard, which I understand is quite common around there, then she married a man named Mueller, which I understand is even more common--, so I'm sort of excited to be contact with someone who is in that area.
Anyhow, Bis Spater.

[PeterGustafsson]

Members,

"I see dead people" wrote:

>What? Swedish people don't speak American? Bomb them!!

We are not amused.

Yours,
Peter Gustafsson

BTW: My american english comes from my mother, who hails from Bakersfield, California.

[Peach]

I took that message as a slam against Americans . . .

[JEC]

Great example demonstrating our current level of geography in the USA (Notice I did not write it as America). Swedish refers to Sweden and Swiss refers to Switzerland. Switzerland has 5 languages: French in Geneva, German in Zurich (High-German at school and Swiss German in the streets), Italian in the canton Ticino, and Romansh in the canton Graubuenden.

The most recent census produced the following picture of how the languages are distributed: (Swiss)German 63.9%, French 19.5%, Italian 6.6%, Romansh 0.5%, others 9.5%. Schools play a key role in bringing the languages closer together, since cantonal school regulations require that every child learn a second national language starting in primary school. English is increasingly taught at an early age, sometimes taking priority over a second national language.
Swiss languages

So, "I see dead people" 's wish may become a reality in the future, but I hope his pseudonim doesn't.

[Inquartata]

He has a mordant sense of humor! Bomb him!

[Rashunda]

I think "I see" was trying to be funny.:-)

Cat, yep "Mueller" is a very common name here. It can be written "Mueller" or "Müller". The umlaut is almost impossible for me to pronounce though. Also, I've had more than one person tell me that true High German can only be heard in Hamburg. All the rest are offshoots.

[Chris Aher]

Originally posted by Catlady
We have club members here who speak different languages and have our share of misunderstanding-- a Hungarian girl and adult men who speak Portugeuse and French respectively, as well as a coach from Ukraine-- but usually we manage to resolve it. Much of fencing is universal anyway.

Catlady,

Your coach's English has really come along, hasn't it. He was our house guest for the last two summers. Please say hi for me.

Regards,
Chris

[earlie]

Most people in the world know how to talk like cool. Just talk cool, man, talk, like cool. Yeh?

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

First off, they don't have to speak hoch Deutsch. As far as they are concerned, you need the club more than the club needs you when it comes to fencing.

[earlie]

Well in Texas they speak Texan English and we all understand it good so whats the stroot with this Hock Dutch and Swedish Dutch? Just let them all EuropeanUnion together and work out a cool blend of Hock-cum-Dutch-cum-Switch.

[Catlady]

Originally posted by Chris Aher
Catlady,

Your coach's English has really come along, hasn't it. He was our house guest for the last two summers. Please say hi for me.

Regards,
Chris

Yes, it really has. What's astounding as well is how quickly his two kids have become "typical American teenagers"-- his son drives to fast and plays his stereo at unbelievable decibel levels and his daughter is involved in pitched battle with her Mom over clothes, from what I hear. Sergei's great. I had no idea you knew him. I won't be into the club until after Christmas, maybe after New Years depending on what's going on, but anyway, the next time I see him I'll pass on your greetings.