Pistol grip V.s French handle?

[veeco]

Originally posted by a517dogg
ya i fence epee
think i could learn french in a summer?
my coach knows his doo-doo.

I think it's worth a try, especially if you have fenced French before and would like to give it a shot.

There is a thread about this on www.escrime-info.com right now and someone was saying that fencing with a French in practice, every once in a while, not all the time, might give someone a little bit of an insight into other actions that they are not used to perform usually and when they switch back to pistol they find that their game has more depth.

So all I'm saying is, if you try it in the summer, you're not really risking anything, and at the end of the summer, if you realize it's not your thing, you can go back to pistol and I don't think it would have been detrimental to your game. On the contrary, it might have actually given you some other actions to play with.

[Aoife]

I would not try a french handle in foil

At all? I fence foil woith a pistol grip (visconti I think), but I might soon have the chance to try out a French. Should I? How much difference does it make to control?

Thanks

[veeco]

Originally posted by Aoife
At all? I fence foil woith a pistol grip (visconti I think), but I might soon have the chance to try out a French. Should I? How much difference does it make to control?

Thanks

If you are a beginner, then I think that it's OK to fence foil with a French. After sometime, you will probably want to switch back to a pistol as a lot of the modern foil game requires strong blade actions which are more comfortable to execute with a pistol grip.

Mostly the difference will be that with a French, you will be able to use your fingers much easily and have tighter and smaller evasive blade actions (which is a good thing to learn as a beginner). However, it will require more strength in your fingers to execute hard beats, whereas the fact that your hand is more "molded" to the pistol creates more pressure points with the grip allowing you to have more power on your beats.

The downside of starting with a pistol though is that it's easier to get a bad habit of using your wrist to perform the blade movements and therefore they will be bigger. Starting with a French gives one a better feeling for the contacts between the blades and the different forces involved.

[Aoife]

Thanks veeco. I'm certainly a beginner, so I'll give it a go when I get the chance.

[Walrus]

In epee the french grip survives.... cause if you know how to use it , it can make you win a few inches by holding it further. And like it has been said, parying with a french grip is not as strong as with a pistol grip.
So each grip has its advantage. Fence with the one you feel comfortable with, and it doesn't matter.

This thread is kinda like, "tall fencers are better"..... I don't agree, because, in general tall fencers are slower too. It's all about how you use your physical properties.

In general fencers with a french grip have a more efficient point.

[a517dogg]

Heh... tall fencers are better. At least in epee.

My dad has a couple french grip epees. He started fencing a few months ago. However, he refuses to bend the tang at a reasonable angle, he has it bent straight. If fencing french, i would want the tang down and right as much as possible. thoughts on tang?

[a517dogg]

by the way, anybody who says "it tastes good" i'll smack

[Purple Fencer]

It tastes good...

<ducks and runs...>

[veeco]

Originally posted by a517dogg
Heh... tall fencers are better. At least in epee.

My dad has a couple french grip epees. He started fencing a few months ago. However, he refuses to bend the tang at a reasonable angle, he has it bent straight. If fencing french, i would want the tang down and right as much as possible. thoughts on tang?

I like to also give a small bend in the handle of the grip itself. It gives me a more comfortable hand position and I can actually get a little more leverage when I do oppositions.

[a517dogg]

smack


how do you get this bend in the grip itself?

when i use this hungarian french grip, it's almost impossible to get onto the blade because its bent. it's very comfortable, but unusable.

[veeco]

Originally posted by a517dogg
smack


how do you get this bend in the grip itself?

when i use this hungarian french grip, it's almost impossible to get onto the blade because its bent. it's very comfortable, but unusable.

Vice. There was a discussion about this a while ago, I think it was titled "Milanoli's grip" or something similar.

Basically, the procedure is the following:

Take old blade where handle is currently installed. Unbend handle and tang as one unit in vice.

Then assemble the weapon as usual, and when you put the handle on the new blade, tighten pommel (not completely, to give some slack to the whole assembly when you are bending it).

Put desired bend in handle and tang at the same time.

Care must be taken and it's usually good to do this gradually and slowly. Don't try to get it set just at once.

Good handles to do this are sabre handles or epee handles which have a metallic core (AFS has some)

[veeco]

This is the thread I mentionned. I felt in a good enough mood today to look for it.

http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthr...ench+grip+bend

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Purple Fencer
It tastes good...

<ducks and runs...>

hehe....

you beat me to it.

oh well, I'll say it anyway.

It tastes good. and you can wait to try and smack me for a month or so. see you at New England's, dogg.

[Walrus]

Originally posted by a517dogg
Heh... tall fencers are better. At least in epee.

My dad has a couple french grip epees. He started fencing a few months ago. However, he refuses to bend the tang at a reasonable angle, he has it bent straight. If fencing french, i would want the tang down and right as much as possible. thoughts on tang?

I'm not sure if i got this right... but you implying that you don't bend it with a pistol grip?

And, I still don't agree that tall fencers are better hehe

[a517dogg]

uhh i'll just smack everyone i see on the thread

yeah i bend my tang for pistol down and right, but these are my dad's blades not mine. he doesn't bend his tang, because he's a n00b.

[damianip]

Originally posted by a517dogg
uhh i'll just smack everyone i see on the thread

yeah i bend my tang for pistol down and right, but these are my dad's blades not mine. he doesn't bend his tang, because he's a n00b.

If Dad's using a French and there's no set in the blade, he's going to :

1: Have trouble getting his weapon on-line
2: If he does, he's going to have a sore wrist/elbow
3: Have a strangely balanced weapon.

IMHO, set is the most critical aspect of weapon setup. Component choice is secondary and doesn't mean much if the blade is not set properly.

Paolo

[a517dogg]

what do you mean by set?

he uses light non fie blades, and whatever handles i had lying aruond.

[veeco]

That's funny, I thought that the US way of saying "set", like the Brits do, was "cant". However Paolo, clearly hailing from the US, said "set". Are both terms interchangeable?

[damianip]

Originally posted by veeco
That's funny, I thought that the US way of saying "set", like the Brits do, was "cant". However Paolo, clearly hailing from the US, said "set". Are both terms interchangeable?

Yes, they are (at least in my mind). Although I think "cant" is used in the States also. Volkmann refers to it as "cant". It's probably a personal affectation on my part. I've heard it both ways here. However, since I've confused some folks here, I will "tighten up" my terminology and stick to "cant".

The point is that the proper horizontal and vertical cant is critical to proper balance, and is variable from person to person.

Paolo

[meph]

Well, I'm new to the list but have been fencing for about 10 years now. Until fairly recently, I ONLY used french and placed in the top 6 in several standard tournaments.....

Now I use a modern spanish (large) and a Del Castillo (A variation of the spanish modern). I find the prongs give me a little more leveage but I still fence with a french if I can't use my handles. I have to agree that people just have a preference and some things seem to work for some people and others not. The only pistol-grip I seem to like is the sherma-sport (sp?).

Meph