Blade Weight & Beats/Binds (Epee)

[chinbeard]

I've always used StM non-FIE blades, and now I'm thinking about branching out and trying new things. According to the internet, StM blades are moderate to moderate-heavy in relation to other blades.

Now, I ain't no fancy big-city physicist or nothin', but theoretically, a heavier blade would have more inertia, making it harder for my opponents to alter its course. How noticeable is this on the strip?

[migopod]

I've always used StM non-FIE blades, and now I'm thinking about branching out and trying new things. According to the internet, StM blades are moderate to moderate-heavy in relation to other blades.

Now, I ain't no fancy big-city physicist or nothin', but theoretically, a heavier blade would have more inertia, making it harder for my opponents to alter its course. How noticeable is this on the strip?

The weight (really mass in this context) of the blade does have an effect on how much force is required to move it and stop it from moving, but not really a whole lot compared to other factors like how tightly you're holding it, how well you slip off an engagement and where on your blade the engagement occurs.

[chinbeard]

The weight (really mass in this context) of the blade does have an effect on how much force is required to move it and stop it from moving, but not really a whole lot compared to other factors like how tightly you're holding it, how well you slip off an engagement and where on your blade the engagement occurs.

Even in extreme cases like LP v Vniti?

[migopod]

Even in extreme cases like LP v Vniti?

Really you're asking about two different situations. Binds are almost entirely a question of leverage. Beats are an inelastic collision, so final velocity of beaters blade, initial velocity of the beaten blade and their relative masses are a consideration as well as where on the blade the force is applied. An extreme difference, such as LP v Vniti would probably be noticeable especially if the beater was a sharply accelerating Vniti and the beaten was a stationary LP. The fencer with the lighter blade would also have a similarly easier time stopping the motion imparted by the beat or just disengaging it.

If you have the $ to shell out for one of each, it would be an interesting experiment though.

[LordShout]

I've fenced with an LP vs. Vniti and with a Vniti vs. LP.

It is noticeable if you're fencing poorly and trying to just stand still and hack and whack. Once you start moving the controlling factor is (as previously stated) where on the blade the action is. In summary you'll notice it at the start of the bout and than forget about it.

The real fun is comparing the flick styles...

[chinbeard]

I forgot about that...I've read elsewhere on this board that both LP and Vniti epee blades flick "weird," but that could mean anything. How do they compare with StM (non-FIE) epees (pistol grip)?

[LordShout]

LP blades flick. A lot. They bend and bend and bend, you can almost flick to the knee level from guard without much effort.

Vnitis get this really odd slow motion ka-chunk flip. Takes a little loading but a nice arc.

[CvilleFencer]

Lp epee blades are stiff. Like pool cue, make a BF white look whippy kind of stiff. Except when they aren't. There is a wide range in LP epee blades. Generally the earlier ones were extremely loose. The ones I see lately run toward tight but there is still a wide range, so you can find what you like.

Honestly, I have this theory that the whole "X blade flicks well for me. No no X blade can't flick at all, but Y blade flicks fine" thing has to do more with how the flick is being done. If you are doing a whole arm "hatchet chop" flick a loose blade like a Vniti is going to seem really flexible and slow. If you are doing fingers it is going to be just fine. I think there is a lot of stylistic consideration that goes in to that equation that is not well thought about.

[Superscribe]

Lp epee blades are stiff. Like pool cue, make a BF white look whippy kind of stiff. Except when they aren't. There is a wide range in LP epee blades. Generally the earlier ones were extremely loose. The ones I see lately run toward tight but there is still a wide range, so you can find what you like.
Honestly, I have this theory that the whole "X blade flicks well for me. No no X blade can't flick at all, but Y blade flicks fine" thing has to do more with how the flick is being done. If you are doing a whole arm "hatchet chop" flick a loose blade like a Vniti is going to seem really flexible and slow. If you are doing fingers it is going to be just fine. I think there is a lot of stylistic consideration that goes in to that equation that is not well thought about.

You are disgusting. Blades are not to be talked about like women.

I think?

[Purple Fencer]

It's not so much about the weight of the blade as it's flexibility. A whippy blade's going to flex around the blade being beat and not move it as much (even though moving the blade off line isn't really the point). A stiffer blade (like the rebar-like BF) is going to transfer more of your force into the other blade and move it more.

Likewise, a stiffer blade will deflect a parry better than a whippy one.

[crquack]

The differing blade weights are freely discussed, but *what are they*? Has anyone got any figures how much the respective blades actually weigh?

[migopod]

The differing blade weights are freely discussed, but *what are they*? Has anyone got any figures how much the respective blades actually weigh?

Leon Paul has them for a number of different blades in the specifications section for each blade.


according to their figures:

Vniti: 189g
LP FIE: 156g
LP non-FIE: 150g

[damianip]

Moment of inertia in the axis of the parry is the biggest blade factor affecting parries.

It's a bit similar to the concept of heavy baseball bat versus a quick baseball bat.

Given the strength of most fencers, a still light blade will out parry a heavy blade.

Of course, the efficacy or any parry is really dependent on the timing and skill of the fencer more than the blade.

Paolo

[crquack]

The blade is then only a small part of the total weapon weight (around 500g). The balance point is about 6" in front of the guard. It is hard to believe that 40g is going to make that much difference. I would have thought the stiffness to be the overriding factor.