How Useful is Fencing for a Ivy-Hopeful

[hello?]

The truth of the matter is that in college admissions, like in epee (not that I really believe THIS), anything can happen!

There are always all kinds of crazy stories -- a fencer who did not get into NYU early admission but got into Columbia, a girl (not a fencer) who did not get into Holy Cross but got into Brown...Go figure (as far as I am concerned).

[Relampago]

As someone that just went through the process,

...

admissions officers say the essay doesn't effect a person's chances for admission

...

so many of the essays are similar in [content and] writing ability.

Haha, hopefully you're right!

[brtech]

I've been through this 4 times.

From nearly every parent and child's point of view, admissions decisions are capricious and arbitrary for any kind of top ranked college.

Every once in a while, you have this feeling you know when you are going to get a yes or no from a particular institution (when the admissions officer says "she's our kind of girl" after an interview, you figure it's fairly likely). That is exceedingly rare.

You get the results back, you talk to his/her peers and their parents, and I guarantee you, you will not understand how the decisions were made, and you will feel that your kid deserved better.

Despite denials, scores matter most, then grades, then essays, then extracurriculars, but coaches can and do change things for the kids they want. Ivies have so many kids with over the top grades and scores that I think they are even more arbitrary. I'm sure their admissions folks would not agree, but I can tell you FOR SURE, that parents and students believe otherwise, no matter how much experience they get. Most guidance folks I've talked to agree. It's fairly easy to see where the minimum bar is set, under which you need something extraordinary, but beyond that, from parents and kids, it's arbitrary.

Another really weird part of this is that the kids get their own sense of a college by visiting it. They will tell you sometimes that they just don't like it, and you'll never understand why. You have to visit. For the ones he/she likes, do an overnight, attend classes, try the food, ...

Part of this is a self defeating circle. Because it is so arbitrary, you have to have more chances to let the odds work in your favor. That means you apply to way more places than you really want to, because the result is arbitrary, and you have no idea if you will or won't get a favorable answer from the process.

Where way back when, you pretty much could figure it out, and you did a reach, a probable and a backup submission, you need maybe 4 or 5 probables to get past the arbitrary. And once you go that far, what's another 2-3 reaches?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Another really weird part of this is that the kids get their own sense of a college by visiting it. They will tell you sometimes that they just don't like it, and you'll never understand why. You have to visit. For the ones he/she likes, do an overnight, attend classes, try the food, ...

SO TRUE.

I did an official school tour of a school we'll call "W". Loved it. Then spent three days straight there setting up and fencing at a USFA tournament there. Loved it. Received all sorts of promotional material, including handwritten letters. Loved it. Was accepted first of all the selective schools I applied to (one state university beat them by a couple months because I applied there early for scholarship reasons), and it was accompanied by the most generous (opening) financial aid offer. AMAZING!! It was also the only school with an NCAA fencing program I had applied to! We all thought it was a match.

Then I went to the overnight.

By the end of the overnight, I was sitting on a bench, crying, waiting for my parents to pick me up, because they were of course late. I was miserable, I had hated it. I still can't exactly explain why. It was just NOT the place for me.

My mother is still mystified and kind of wishes I had gone there. I know I made the right decision.

Moral of the story: Do the overnight before sending in the check.

[Coldfire]

Haha, hopefully you're right!

Thats why I had my college counselor read my essays.

I got into an Ivy ED so at this point it doesn't really matter one way or the other to me

[JEC]

In general, the minimum bar is 2100 SAT, high grades (>3.6/4.0), top 10% ranking or very close, with challenging coursework (several AP/ mostly H), and fencing as a side-dish. A fencer often offset a kid with poor Academic Index in the Football or Basketball teams, thus, for fencers Academic Index over 210 is another bar. The higher the AI, the easier the coach can talk the Admissions officer into seeing the merits of the kid.

[gatsby]

I know lots of people who work in college admissions and they pretty much all say this:

Fencing definitely helps, but only if you're on equal academic ground with the competition. It won't "get you in," but being a fencer with a 3.8 is going to be better than someone who has an empty resume but a 3.85.

[gladius]

Fencing definitely helps, but only if you're on equal academic ground with the competition. It won't "get you in," but being a fencer with a 3.8 is going to be better than someone who has an empty resume but a 3.85.

And this is also why a non fencer with perfect SAT or graduating at the top of his/her class is not guaranteed admission. But a student-fencer with such (or close to) stellar academic scores and high USFA ranking (relative to all other student-fencer applicants) has it easier, even much easier.

Ergo, fencing can and does help.



PS: It is true also that among the various sports student-fencers have a higher bar to cross (in terms of academic qualifications) than say a football or basketball or other powerhouse NCAA sport athletes. And this is also good for fencing.