How Useful is Fencing for a Ivy-Hopeful

[prototoast]

Says an Ivy League Grad.

I really do feel bad. I started doing interviews this year, and let me say, I got to meet some really exceptional high school students. It makes me sad to think that probably none of them will get in. On the other hand, I really am optimistic for the future of our country with so many exceptional young people. Whether they get into their Ivy league dream school or not, they remain exceptional people who will accomplish great things and make valuable contributions to whatever community they are a part of.

[Fencing Mom]

I'm not going to pass judgment on the parenting of someone I don't know, based on a message board forum post, but I will say this:

Please, please let the fact that your child apparently ENJOYS fencing be a factor in your decision. Maybe even the most important one.

Thank you.

Let’s remember that this parent asked for information – how does fencing impact a student’s success at being admitted to an ivy league school. What a good resource this forum is of fencers and parents sharing their experience with school admissions and fencing. What this parent didn’t ask for was opinion or speculation on whether he is providing a good family environment.

[pillow]

Thank you.

Let’s remember that this parent asked for information – how does fencing impact a student’s success at being admitted to an ivy league school. What a good resource this forum is of fencers and parents sharing their experience with school admissions and fencing. What this parent didn’t ask for was opinion or speculation on whether he is providing a good family environment.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but when you post stuff on an Internet forum such as F.net, or any other, you "takes your chances." I'm not bound, nor is any other participant, to restrict my answers to exactly what the OP was about. If the OP cannot stomach comments about the environment of the family--tough.
The OP can simply not read any more posts here.

[Fencing Mom]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but when you post stuff on an Internet forum such as F.net, or any other, you "takes your chances." I'm not bound, nor is any other participant, to restrict my answers to exactly what the OP was about. If the OP cannot stomach comments about the environment of the family--tough.
The OP can simply not read any more posts here.

Wasn't a bubble, was a suggestion. But, hey... you made your point.

[forteparent]

And i totally respect that. I don't expect you to know how i really raise my son and i would probably make judgements too if i were in your position.

[chinbeard]

And i totally respect that. I don't expect you to know how i really raise my son and i would probably make judgements too if i were in your position.

Yes. All caring parents do not want their offspring relegated to TTT non-Ivy colleges like Caltech, Stanford, Chicago, Miami, Hopkins, MIT, Duke, Northwestern, Emory, or Rice. And anyone who allows their kid to settle for a (shudder) state school like Berkeley, UVa, or Michigan should just be shot.

[SpiralGalaxy]

BTW, a very interesting article here on someone who got into Univ. Virginia with only a couple of extracurricular HS activities: sometimes having a passion is *the* most important thing you can do:

http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/02/1...ge-admissions/

[Fiat Slug]

And i totally respect that. I don't expect you to know how i really raise my son and i would probably make judgements too if i were in your position.

That's the spirit!!! If you stick around here, you'll discover all kinds of useful info from colorful people. Once in a while, some of the useful info might actually be fencing-related.

.

[chinbeard]

BTW, a very interesting article here on someone who got into Univ. Virginia with only a couple of extracurricular HS activities: sometimes having a passion is *the* most important thing you can do:

http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/02/1...ge-admissions/

A top school is not good enough for her son. It must be a member of the Ivy League Conference. Why would her son go to UVa or Stanford when he could go to Brown?

[prototoast]

Why would her son go to UVa or Stanford when he could go to Brown?

I agree!

[Mo]

BTW, a very interesting article here on someone who got into Univ. Virginia with only a couple of extracurricular HS activities: sometimes having a passion is *the* most important thing you can do:

http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/02/1...ge-admissions/

This is an amazing article and very true.
While talking to a woman who has experience in college and grad school admissions, she said they look for applications that emphasize what the student can bring to the program as opposed of what the student is trying to get out of the program.
B

[vivoescrimare]

The answer to the actual question posed by the OP (How good does he need to be...) is : "As good as he can be." Stellar fencing results will tilt his chances, but will not be the decisive (or necessarily even major) factor.

If his grades/test scores are competitive, the better his fencing results (and, more importantly, the better he conveys his drive and love/passion for the sport) will put him ahead of similarly qualified candidates.

A more qualified (Academically) candidate will likely still be put ahead, a less qualified put behind. Unless you're in the international bracket, actual fencing level is a straw - yes it CAN break the camel's back, but is unlikely to do so. Love of the game probably carries more weight for those outside the top percentiles.

[hello?]

And, unless he is a super-elite fencer, chances are he won't be the #1 pick (or #2 or #3 -- depending on the coach/college...but the number is definitely in the single digits) that the coach can really 'force' down the admissions committee 'throat.' (Even for this, the student has to come within the college's parameters for admission first.)

In most cases, even if the coach wants to advocate on your child's behalf (because he desperately needs foilists and he feels that your kid would really help the team), there is an 'admissions committee' that also needs to be convinced that he deserves to get into Yale (or to Palookaville University). For that admissions committee, the 'passion' and commitment displayed to a sport (or whatever activity) will be much more important than the kid's B or C rating or even than his senior points...and probably more important than the slightly better SAT score he MIGHT have gotten if he did nothing but memorize Kaplan vocabulary words.

[bjacobs]

What many are pussyfooting around is that your son isn't going to get into Yale with his less than stellar SATs and grades. Being a high level fencer might help, maybe, but he's not a high level fencer, and he's not going to be one by the time applications are due.

Accept that, as things stand, Yale isn't in the cards. He's not going to Yale.

This is not a tragedy. If he cares about fencing, there are plenty of good schools easier to get into than Yale where he might be able to participate on a team, or practice with a club. There are also plenty of great schools near private clubs he can train at. But he should really work to get his grades up so he has the most options possible.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Accept that, as things stand, Yale isn't in the cards. He's not going to Yale.

This is not a tragedy.

Says a soon to be graduate of TWO (2) Ivies, neither of which are Yale.

[fencerbill]

What many are pussyfooting around is that your son isn't going to get into Yale with his less than stellar SATs and grades. Being a high level fencer might help, maybe, but he's not a high level fencer, and he's not going to be one by the time applications are due.

Accept that, as things stand, Yale isn't in the cards. He's not going to Yale.

This is not a tragedy. If he cares about fencing, there are plenty of good schools easier to get into than Yale where he might be able to participate on a team, or practice with a club. There are also plenty of great schools near private clubs he can train at. But he should really work to get his grades up so he has the most options possible.

Spoken by a better-than-D Sabre fencer who went to Columbia and spent so much time looking up to higher rated Sabrists he took up Epee.

Sorry if someone else mentioned this but has he considered Dartmouth or Cornell? Neither is NCAA but they have club fencing. In fact Dartmouth fences a lot of other club teams within 50-100 miles. For info, some recent and some outdated, Google "Northeast fencing conference".

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Sorry if someone else mentioned this but has he considered Dartmouth or Cornell? Neither is NCAA but they have club fencing. In fact Dartmouth fences a lot of other club teams within 50-100 miles. For info, some recent and some outdated, Google "Northeast fencing conference".

The problem doesn't seem to be that the student in question is a Brilliant student that needs a crappy fencing program without a coach. The problem seems to be that the student in question would be best suited by a good school (but maybe not an Ivy) with a good fencing program (but maybe not one that requires an A or B to get on the squad?).

There are plenty of schools that meet those qualifications. When you are forced to make suggestions like that, you often go with Brandeis and BC. Those are two on a very long list.

[extrastar]

When you are forced to make suggestions like that, you often go with Brandeis and BC. Those are two on a very long list.

Truth. Haverford, Vassar, Tufts (men's club), and Johns Hopkins also come to mind...among others, of course.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

My list was abnormally short because Bill is usually prejudiced toward co-ed varsity teams in the Northeast Fencing Conference that are also in the Metro Boston Area. I crossed off MIT because, well, let's be honest, for many it's easier to get into Yale than MIT.

I agree that the schools on your list are also good schools that have fencing programs that could also potentially be good matches, or not. Obviously, campus visits and talking to coaches is important.

[bjacobs]

Oh, MP and Bill, I see how it looks, heh...

but you know what? I'm in a better position than most to give advice here. I went through the whole Ivy application process thing (twice, as MP's pointed out). I sat down during my junior and senior high school years across the desk from the coaches at Yale, Brown, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, and Princeton and talked about my fencing and my chances.

And you know what they all said to me? "You're an ok fencer, it'd be fine to have you around, WHAT ARE YOUR GRADES AND SCORES?"

Because my fencing wasn't going to get me into those particular schools. It wasn't even necessarily good enough to get them to put me on their "recommend" list if my grades weren't already high enough to make that a worthwhile use of their limited list. Maybe it would have been different if I was an elite fencer, I have some reason to think it is, but not that different. A lot of elite fencers seem to have done real well in high school.

So that's how it works. Yale, in both undergraduate and graduate schools, is one of the harder of those schools to get into academically. It took them next to no time at all to toss my law school application in the trash, and I never considered applying there for undergrad.