Digital (Video) Camera Advice

[chinbeard]

I'm looking for a low-end digital video camera, which performs well in low light environments. I've heard good things about the Flip, but I've also heard that it isn't better than most "point n shoot" digital cameras. Since Flips can't take still pictures, I would prefer a digital camera. However, if digital cameras really aren't as good as dedicated digital video cameras, that's a different story.

I don't have any experience with either type of camera, so any input would be appreciated.

Maximum Budget: $150
(Preferred: $100)

[thereom4]

I'm looking for a low-end digital video camera, which performs well in low light environments. I've heard good things about the Flip, but I've also heard that it isn't better than most "point n shoot" digital cameras. Since Flips can't take still pictures, I would prefer a digital camera. However, if digital cameras really aren't as good as dedicated digital video cameras, that's a different story.

I don't have any experience with either type of camera, so any input would be appreciated.

Maximum Budget: $150
(Preferred: $100)

You can take always take a still from the video. Walmart sells the Flip and Kodak's version of the flip. It has a digital still camera function. I was in the market for a Flip when I say Kodak's version. Both have really good reviews.

Here's the link:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Kodak-Zi8/12516417

[TripleTTT]

I own the Flip and it is a great camera. I would really recommend it. If you ar looking for a video camera just for the odd filming quick shoot, this camera is perfect. ( Most handheld video cameras have a photo taking mode in them)

[erooMynohtnA]

http://www.youtube.com/eroomynohtna

All my videos were shot with a Canon Powershot ELPH. This one I think: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=16718 Obviously they were higher quality before being converted to youtubes.

I had a more expensive Sony Cybershot, and I am much happier with the Canon. I would tell you the pros and cons, but I imagine you'll do your own research.

[WGH]

I just picked up one of the Flip Ultra HD's on Amazon for about $150 bucks and it's working great for fencing videos. I have in the past had my hands on the non-HD Flips and would strongly recommend against them. The video on both of them is far better then my Sony Cybershot I was using before. I have also used Panasonic HVX-200 and Sony V1U prosumer cameras for the same purpose and don't find the Flip HD to be all that far behind for point and shoot, though dramatically cheaper.

[FreshPrinceofEWU]

I own one of the original flip cameras and it works well enough for recording bouts. There are a few things that I don't like about it though. If you zoom in things tend to get a bit fuzzy which can be annoying when trying to catch blade actions. The other thing is the lack of card slot, which means you are limited to 30 or 60 minutes of video.

My brother ended up buying the kodak Zi6 and I like it a lot better because it has HD capability and a card slot. It runs about 150 bucks.

Both are good but it all depends on how fancy you want to get.

[crquack]

Can you put them on a tripod?

[FreshPrinceofEWU]

Yeah they both fit on a tripod.

[bwc_28]

I have the Kodak Zi8 and it works superbly in low light. The huge plus it has over all the flips is that it has a 60 fps mode at 720p. The Best Buy by me has them right now for around $130. It's a much better camera than any of the flips when it comes to fencing. One of my club mates uses a flip and the quality is just not the same. What it comes down to is that the Zi8 has better low light performance and follows action much smoother without stuttering. That 60 fps makes a huge difference!

Also, all of the Kodaks can do 60fps at 720p except the new playsport. So really they're all better choices than the flips.

[WGH]

I have the Kodak Zi8 and it works superbly in low light. The huge plus it has over all the flips is that it has a 60 fps mode at 720p. The Best Buy by me has them right now for around $130. It's a much better camera than any of the flips when it comes to fencing. One of my club mates uses a flip and the quality is just not the same. What it comes down to is that the Zi8 has better low light performance and follows action much smoother without stuttering. That 60 fps makes a huge difference!

Also, all of the Kodaks can do 60fps at 720p except the new playsport. So really they're all better choices than the flips.

The Kodak Zi8 is a pretty good camera, but I wouldn't rule out the flip HDs that quickly. 720/60p is VERY handy, but the lens on the Flip is f2.4 compared to f2.8 on the Kodak, so the flip HD will handle slightly better in low light. The Kodak has better image stabilization, but needs it as it is harder to balance. They are about the same price, and the Kodak comes with an HDMI cable. The Kodak, however, does NOT come with extra memory, having only 120MB build in (the flip has 8 GB). The ability to add memory is a big advantage for the kodak, but since both cameras are about the same price, you will have to figure in the cost of an 8+ gig SD card for the Kodak. Plus the software on the Flip is far easier to use in my opinion. I'm a Final Cut editor, so I wouldn't call either system all that robust in terms of editing, but the Flip seems more friendly to the total consumer.

Basically, either will do you well for what you're needing. Just don't go for the standard Flip. The 50$ of savings isn't worth the dramatic difference in lens, software and resolution.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

I have the HDR-UX5 by Sony. It's a couple of years old...so the original price tag (right around $1k, I believe), would no longer be relevant. I've found that the stills AND hd video are fantastic for fencing AND for vacation/family events. I would bet that you can pick something like this up, used, on ebay for close to your budget.

[crquack]

I see the Flip comes with a "rechargeable battery pack" but no charger. Is that correct? What charger do you use? The batteries also appear NiMH so how is the self-discharge rate?

OTOH you can use AA batteries, too, apparently. How is it on consumption? I have personally stopped using re-chargeable Duracell NiMH batteries in my digital camera because they were a PITA.

As for the Zi8: What flash card do you need? Will Class 6 suffice?

[WGH]

I see the Flip comes with a "rechargeable battery pack" but no charger. Is that correct? What charger do you use? The batteries also appear NiMH so how is the self-discharge rate?

OTOH you can use AA batteries, too, apparently. How is it on consumption? I have personally stopped using re-chargeable Duracell NiMH batteries in my digital camera because they were a PITA.

As for the Zi8: What flash card do you need? Will Class 6 suffice?

It charges through the attached USB dongle. You can purchase a wall charger to plug the USB dongle into that will charge it slightly faster, but it isn't really needed. The rechargeable battery lasts 2.5 hours officially and I haven't seen very different performance in real conditions. This is .5 hours longer than the built in lithium on the Flip Mino HD.

The Zi8 uses SDHC for storage, so it should be backwards compatible with any SD card you have. You are definitely best off with a class 6 SDHC card though.

[crquack]

I bought the Zi8 yesterday. It was the last, demo piece in the shop so I got it $20 cheaper which almost paid for the 8GB card. The salesman was insistent that Class 4 card would be good enough but I politely declined and got a Class 6 in another shop - for $10 less.

Today I took it to the racquetball court and tested it against my Canon A720IS in video mode. Shot 3 bouts with each off a tripod. No doubt about it: The pics are clearer, blade action is seen more easily with the Zi8. Pity about the slightly narrowed angle but that can be overcome by poor footwork :-)

My wife is excited as I can now show her the horrible things she does, not just tell her. Trust her to edit out the one touch she scored on me and send it around to her relatives!

[cmk]

BUT it was a fine hit!! Honest it was......

[WGH]

I bought the Zi8 yesterday. It was the last, demo piece in the shop so I got it $20 cheaper which almost paid for the 8GB card. The salesman was insistent that Class 4 card would be good enough but I politely declined and got a Class 6 in another shop - for $10 less.

Today I took it to the racquetball court and tested it against my Canon A720IS in video mode. Shot 3 bouts with each off a tripod. No doubt about it: The pics are clearer, blade action is seen more easily with the Zi8. Pity about the slightly narrowed angle but that can be overcome by poor footwork :-)

My wife is excited as I can now show her the horrible things she does, not just tell her. Trust her to edit out the one touch she scored on me and send it around to her relatives!

Congrats . Welcome to the world of pocket HD. The quality difference should be massive over your old powershot.. especially if you run in 60p mode! Good to know that you're already using it to annoy your spouse.. that's the main reason I use it! You really lose the moment trying to get the big camera out...

[thekoby]

I was using an old Sony TRV58 Hi8 video camera for my club for the longest time. It would shoot in 16:9 widescreen so I could fit majority of the strip on screen, but two years ago I finally upgraded to the Samsung SC-D38 MiniDV digital video camera for $150 at Wal-Mart (they no longer sell it, but you can still get it for that price on ebay). It's a decent digital video camera with all the latest features minus the HD output. However, if you have Adobe Media Encoder 4, you can easily convert the regular 480i image to a 720p HD version with very little distortion (as long as you capture the video using the firewire port instead of the available USB or analog).

However, since I bought my new Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ28 digital still camera, I've been using that a lot for fencing videos. It takes 720p HD video (but oddly only mono sound) and the built in image stabilizer means there's hardly any need for a tripod unless you have excessively shaky hands. Not to mention the FZ28 has a very wide view angle, which can fit almost the whole strip if you are standing behind the referee. Unfortunately this camera (despite being a year old and having seen two upgrades) is still sitting around a hefty $500 price tag on ebay.