Foil vs Sabre - The Video

[DavidX]

I don't think I can post the video directly in here because it's not google or youtube.

Here is the awesome.



http://blip.tv/dashboard/episode/3213726

I am going to make another - better one - with hopefully multiple camera angles. This was the first time I had ever done it and we were still figuring out the mechanics of it - also no one wanted to be responsible for making the calls and our most heavily experienced director was out.

I will eventually beat Tim Morehouse just like this.

(Word is bond)

[Sean Butler]

Interesting, what was the setting on your scoring box which made this work? Foil?

[DavidX]

Sabre - works perfectly.

[Bonehead]

I am not authorized to see this post.

[chase]

Same here.

[Sean Butler]

I went to the blip.tv site and signed up for an account. After that I searched for the terms "Foil Sabre" and found his video.

I am curious, since it was somewhat hard to tell, were you both fencing by the rules of your particular weapon?

Some random thoughts:

* Could the sabreur cross-over advance or fleche? Clearly you were allowed to in at least one point.

* Since you were using the sabre setting, i think that the success of this might be somewhat box-dependent. I know some boxes don't have predictable behavior when the sabre short isn't working.

* A foil is longer than a sabre and that makes it interesting since you are working with sabre timing.

* It didn't look like you were wearing a sabre cuff, were you?

* I thought it was interesting to see you parry cuts with a foil. I wondered how this worked for you over all. It seems like your hand would be way too exposed. Maybe the sabreur didn't adopt a strictly anti-foilist strategy.

I was thinking that since he could hit your wrist long before you could hit his torso, locking you out would be a pretty fool proof strat. He just needs to learn to keep better distance.

[Bonehead]

This video was funny in so many ways.

Thank's David.

PS: Where did you get my graduation photo?

[Bonehead]

http://blip.tv/file/3194248/

The link BTW

[KShan5[PrFC]]

If you have a sabre and are wearing a foil lame and your opponent is wearing a sabre lame and holding a foil, and you're of comparable skill, the person holding the sabre should win 100% of the time. All if take is stop cut to the wrist. I just think both fencers weren't very good, which lead to this being a sloppy exchange (not to mention the entire concept is ridiculous).

[chase]

I think that I just got a little stupider while watching this.

[chase]

You will also never beat Tim Morehouse. Ever.

[telkanuru]

I think that I just got a little stupider while watching this.

that undiscovered country from whose borne no traveler has returned...

[Bonehead]

You will also never beat Tim Morehouse. Ever.

That's pretty harsh.

... but probably true, depending on the time frame.

[vivoescrimare]

Not to burst DavidX's bubble (Because who'd want THAT on their conscience,) but on a sabre box setting the whole weapon is live. Et al - you don't actually have to depress the button on your foil, or even actually hit with the point. If your blade touches his lame, you're going to see lights. As the foil is a thrusting weapon, this kind of defeats the sabreur's one advantage, n'est-ce pas?

[Bonehead]

Exactly. It's just sabre, except one guy has way more available target than the other guy; Which is why, all things being equal, the guy wearing the foil lame should win.

[vivoescrimare]

This is a ridiculous conversation that I so, so, so don't want to have - but the foil is longer than the sabre - so, with sabre lockout time, the foil does have an advantage (especially since it doesn't have to land a valid touch, just make contact.)

That being said, yes, any competent sabre fencer would be finishing to the arm. That being said, please alert me immediately when you find any demonstration of competence in that video. IMMEDIATELY.

Edit : The actual difference is minute - probably about an inch. Foil fencing tends to encourage hitting at full extension more than sabre - which is more prone to landing on the top third or so.

[DavidX]

I went to the blip.tv site and signed up for an account. After that I searched for the terms "Foil Sabre" and found his video.

I am curious, since it was somewhat hard to tell, were you both fencing by the rules of your particular weapon?

Some random thoughts:

* Could the sabreur cross-over advance or fleche? Clearly you were allowed to in at least one point.

(No Sabre cross overs - I only fleched once)

* Since you were using the sabre setting, i think that the success of this might be somewhat box-dependent. I know some boxes don't have predictable behavior when the sabre short isn't working.

(the box worked fine the lockout function was operational)

* A foil is longer than a sabre and that makes it interesting since you are working with sabre timing.
(Judges and directors have told me that I fence like a sabreur anyways - the lights aren't as important as establishing ROW)

* It didn't look like you were wearing a sabre cuff, were you?
(No to somewhat even out my lack of bellguard I wore my motorcycle gauntlet it covers about two inches past my wrist)

* I thought it was interesting to see you parry cuts with a foil. I wondered how this worked for you over all. It seems like your hand would be way too exposed. Maybe the sabreur didn't adopt a strictly anti-foilist strategy.
(Even though we had fun I SO SO SO wish the other bout had been filmed - it was against a very experienced sabereur who has never lost to the person I fenced and who has been going to competitions for years - I edited that video WAY the hell down - we spent a lot of time just figuring out how the system worked - and my opponent is my closest salle mate who knows how to fence me knows my attacks and knows my timing - at tournaments I have crushed people who beat him)
I was thinking that since he could hit your wrist long before you could hit his torso, locking you out would be a pretty fool proof strat. He just needs to learn to keep better distance.
(He did - he actually got a couple clean ones in that somehow got lost on the editing room floor - but after I would bait him with hit than parry the hell out of it on my way in he stopped going for offensive wrist cuts)

much love

[DavidX]

This video was funny in so many ways.

Thank's David.

PS: Where did you get my graduation photo?

I'm glad you liked it mon frere eez blizkee mater.

[edew]

Unless you take the insulating tape off the top 15cm of the foil, it's shortened by that much as well. You're either going to hit with the tip (without necessarily depressing the tip), or with the rest of the blade below the tape. A simple stop-cut by the saber fencer to the wrist is going to lock out any attempt to hit the torso with the foil, tip or any other part of the blade (and good luck with the any other part, especially that which is below the insulating tape).

[DavidX]

If you have a sabre and are wearing a foil lame and your opponent is wearing a sabre lame and holding a foil, and you're of comparable skill, the person holding the sabre should win 100% of the time. All if take is stop cut to the wrist. I just think both fencers weren't very good, which lead to this being a sloppy exchange (not to mention the entire concept is ridiculous).

Like I said - this wasn't the bout I wanted filmed - I was just getting into the swing of things and was super jacked on an empty stomach and a red bull shot - any time me and him fence it is sloppy and ridiculous because we know eachothers game so well we just end up swashbuckling around to try and throw some spontaneity into it. I intend to have a two camera - director called bout filmed with an experienced sabreur and show you how it looked after we got our groove on.

The concept is not ridiculous - RoW exists target area is target area - you just have to be able to put up a hella strong parry (which I was able to do with my stiff as a coffin nail STM gold blade I got from fencing.net TM)