Grounding Out (Epee)

[Alexander Kai]

Hi!

So I have a problem, its consistent, maybe its the way I fence or the way I treat my blades, maybe its how they're made or put together, or just the general rituals I perform for luck before a tournament, who knows. For now, let's assume all other things are equal.

My wires tend to be consistently either cut, at the bell guard, or Exposed at the bell guard. This is across three different Epees, made by three different companies. It leads to problems such as grounding out, and unable to score touches, intermittent touches, or other problems that are even worse.

Does anyone know an Epee, or an Epee maker, that stands out as having a phenomenal wiring job, I remember starting with one, but the vendor wasn't specific as to who made it, and I don't go to that vendor any more (for other reasons).

[Purple Fencer]

What brand of blades? Sometimes they contribute to the problem. Vniti, for example, has a really shallow groove at the shoulder, whichmight helpthe wires get cut by the guard.

Pics would help.

[Alexander Kai]

I'm not classy enough to use Vniti.

The first one is unknown. The second one was an absolute standard, and the third one was STM (Absolute bell guard).

Any blades you know of that have particularly deep grooves?

[DangerMouse]

Do you find your grips loosen up? Wait to tighten them until after the bout?

[Alexander Kai]

The grips do loosen up on occasion.... well, on the STM one they did. when the circuits became intermittent, tightening and loosening would help/not help in its own way. I don't think, however, that that was the cause of the bell guard cutting through, the insulation, wire, or electrical tape.... though its a possible one that I should watch for in the future.

I'm just looking for a new Epee (cause all of mine are broken) and I'm trying to find one that is the least likely to have this problem (or to do things that will prevent this problem in the future.)

On that end I may just go FIE..... if I have the money.

[DangerMouse]

If you are using your epees when the grip is loose, the guard can rotate and cut the wires or the rotation of the grip can cut the wires as they slide out from the notch.

The problem probably is not the type of blade you buy. We use StM, AF, and LP blades for club weapons with primarily AF guards and only have the wires break at the guard when someone fences with a weapon with a loose grip.

[SJCFU#2]

The best wiring job is usually one which you do for yourself (or at least have done by someone who knows what they are doing and isn't trying to do a dozen or more blades all at one time).

That being said, one thing you might try is running the spaghetti insulation down all the way through the guard and into the groove of the blade (this is where a wider groove just in front of the guard comes in handy). That way at the spaghetti can provide at least a little bit of protection.

Also make sure that the wires run up through the hole in the guard socket bracket and not between the guard and the bracket (I know this should be obvious but I've also seen it too many times). It also helps to make sure that the guard socket bracket has some sort of mousehole similar to the guard and grip - some sockets have only a square hole for the tang, leaving little or no room for the wires.

One thing that does intrigue me - in your latest post you mentioned electrical tape. What's that doing inside the guard? It's difficult enough convincing some referees that the rules no longer specifically forbid tape inside of the guard, even when it's clear, completely out in the open and can't possibly conceal anything. Why give them something else to question?

Having said all that, I tend to agree with DangerMouse - a loose grip seems like your most likely suspect.

[Alexander Kai]

The electrical tape was covered up by the bell guard, it was on the tang just before the portion of the blade that was screw-like..... if that makes sense. Pretty much I had forgotten it was there and it was unable to be seen, until all the parts were removed. The insulation helped, but you do make a good point.

So. Things learned so far:

1. Make sure the grip is always tight.
2. Make sure that bell guard is not sawing at wires,
3. spaghetti insulation is good for this (and probably better than electrical tape)

BTW, I did do one of the wiring jobs myself, I'm scared to do more, but at the same time you make a good point, if I do it myself, then at least I'll know it went wrong because of my sloppy work.

I still have to ask, though, any particular trends that might make my life similar in this regard?

[migopod]

You could try the Zivkovic guards. They supposedly have a "safety channel" that protects the wires. I've not used any, so I'm not sure how well they work but it might be an option.

[Purple Fencer]

You could try the Zivkovic guards. They supposedly have a "safety channel" that protects the wires. I've not used any, so I'm not sure how well they work but it might be an option.

I put one on a foil at SwordPlay...there's NOT way a grip can crush the wire...(it's basically a 2nd internal strengthener on top of the existing one, with the existing one having a cutout for the wire) but you have to remember to NOT put the wire through the base of the socket bracket, since that WILL crush the wire (as the hole in the guard channel would make it necessary for the wire to go under the bracket base to go through the hole)

[brtech]

You want the spaghetti to just come through the guard, and be visible from the blade side, but not enough to catch a tip sliding off the guard.

[Rockstar44]

Any blades you know of that have particularly deep grooves?

The grooves vary a lot even within the same type and manufacturer. I will often "open up" the groove a little with a Dremel where it enters the bell for exactly this reason. Use care and it will have no negative effect on the blade and it will leave a little more room for the wires. You can also file out the mousehole on the bell. Just be sure that you smooth out the edges afterward.

You don't specify what type of grip you are using. I seem to have this problem more with french grips.

Also, make sure that you are using a lockwasher of the proper size.

[damianip]

You want the spaghetti to just come through the guard, and be visible from the blade side, but not enough to catch a tip sliding off the guard.

That's what I do. Works pretty well.

Paolo

[Alexander Kai]

The grooves vary a lot even within the same type and manufacturer. I will often "open up" the groove a little with a Dremel where it enters the bell for exactly this reason. Use care and it will have no negative effect on the blade and it will leave a little more room for the wires. You can also file out the mousehole on the bell. Just be sure that you smooth out the edges afterward.

You don't specify what type of grip you are using. I seem to have this problem more with french grips.

Also, make sure that you are using a lockwasher of the proper size.

The grip was pistol, and having a washer of that size is something I didn't look into at the time.