Popularity of different weapons

[Mr. Wizard]

Hello, ive been fencing sabre for almost 2 years now at the high school level, and ive been wondering, why are foil and epee so popular? Dont get me wrong, im not trying to badmouth those 2 weapons and i dont really have anything against them, this is just an honest inquiry and id like to know what you guys think. Ive fenced all 3 weapons already, and I just dont see the appeal of foil. imo its far too restrictive, and if youre going to make only the torso target area, why go out of your way to include the groin? that seems a bit...idk what the word im looking for here is, somewhere between evil, unsportsmanlike, and annoying. Epee i can understand more, though I dont understand why everyone fences it so slowly. I know 6 different people (me among them) who switched from sabre to epee at some point and fenced high-paced like we did in sabre and we did very well. Anyways, before i go off on a rant, can someone please just explain to me why everywhere i look foil and epee are alot more popular than sabre? again, no disrespect intended, just an honest inquiry

and please dont treat this as a "which is the best starting weapon" thread. Im not concerned with which weapon to choose in the beginning, im concerned with why certain weapons are chosen over the others more often for competition and practice

[jessicasimpson]

Foil is popular because most fencing coaches mistakenly start most of their students in it. Epee is the most popular weapon in the world hands down, because it is so freaking awesome.
On a personal note, I have the most fun fencing Saber, but I will not compete in it anymore. In my division, I get every call because the not so good refs expect me to win, which is true, but no fun at all. Whenever I go out of the division, I never can get any calls my way, and I get very frustrated. That very rarely happens in Epee, you get a level chance to win or lose, it is not up to the ref.

[Peach]

I'm always a little mystified by the appeal of foil and epee, but that's because I'm a sabre fencer I was drawn to it from the beginning, even though my coach starts everyone in foil and even though he thought of sabre as the distant third choice for people who didn't fit foil or epee. It took some stubbornness on my part to be allowed to fence sabre, especially since there was only a handful of other people doing it at my club.

It's all fencing, though--oddly enough, despite the playful bickering among adherents, the different weapons have more in common than not.

[catwood1]

I've competed in all 3 weapons, and taken both foil and sabre semi-seriously. I still prefer foil as my weapon of choice to fence.* Foil always seemed slightly more creative. I felt like it allowed a greater combination of assorted tactics with different technical executions, that could all still be equally effective.

The target area doesn't seem particularly restrictive to me. Its big enough to hit, and small enough that its not impossible to defend. And once you start flicking, all that juicy back target opens up. Once you expand your mind to include low lines, back, and flank, the foil target seems pretty big. Granted, I'm biased. I'm a foil fencer.

*Coaching and refereeing the different weapons have different draws from fencing them.

[Bonehead]

Foil is popular because most fencing coaches mistakenly start most of their students in it.

Mistake? From foil you can transition to Sabre and Epee easily. It's difficult to transfer from epee to sabre and vis versa.

[telkanuru]

Mistake? From foil you can transition to Sabre and Epee easily. It's difficult to transfer from epee to sabre and vis versa.

Nope.

[Bonehead]

Nope.

How do you figure that?

[kapunga]

Mistake? From foil you can transition to Sabre and Epee easily. It's difficult to transfer from epee to sabre and vis versa.

I disagree as well. My main weapon is epee. I've always kinda sucked/felt awkward when fencing foil, not so with sabre. When I fence sabre, I tend to do a lot of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf-nu8o5h0

Sabre has also helped me break my habit of leading with my foot, since my attack stops when my foot lands in sabre.

[Bonehead]

You make a lot of Stop cuts to the hand like lopez?

I dunno, in my experience most epee fencers both don't really have the right kind of footwork to deal with the velocity of Sabre fencing, or good concepts of ROW. I suppose that there is a better sense of distance with the leading target though.

Conversely, in my experience, Sabre fencers generally just don't have the patience or point control to excel in epee.

But I guess the footwork is always transferable.

[crquack]

Epee is cheaper to fence in terms of equipment and simpler to fence in terms of rules and scoring. Small clubs with limited means tend to restrict themselves to epee, at least hereabouts.

Sabre teaching is harder to find than the other two.

[Go? Fencing?]

I started fencing in high school in CT, where (at the time), it was almost exclusively foil at that level. I have since had opportunities to try epee and sabre, and have declined, in large part because I hate the idea of anyone aiming at my head.

[Steve Khinoy]

Epee is popular because
-- It's the least expensive: no lamés or special masks.
-- It's the least dependent on shifting fashions in refereeing
-- It's the least dependent on revolutionary timing changes
-- It requires the least technical preparation and training before results become possible
-- It has the most comprehensible rules
-- It is most closely linked to the tradition of dueling

Foil is popular because it requires a unique combination of creativity and precise technical control. Also, as has been pointed out, because it used to be the most generally accepted training weapon (because as long as there was memory of the sport's origins, learning to parry was regarded as essential).

[kapunga]

You make a lot of Stop cuts to the hand like lopez?

I dunno, in my experience most epee fencers both don't really have the right kind of footwork to deal with the velocity of Sabre fencing, or good concepts of ROW. I suppose that there is a better sense of distance with the leading target though.

Conversely, in my experience, Sabre fencers generally just don't have the patience or point control to excel in epee.

But I guess the footwork is always transferable.

Not anywhere in the same league as Lopez, but good enough that I can annoy the heck out of my clubs sabre fencers with one light stop cuts to the wrist. I also find that because of the lockout timing, so of the tempo feels similar enough that I can hit one light counter attacks. And my epee bladework heIps my disengages when I do point in line. I frequently watch sabre with interest, it definitely helps to know what properly fenced sabre aught to look like. I think transferability really depends more on what kind of fencer a person is more so than anything inherent in the weapons themselves.

[catwood1]

I think if you're going to do an 8 week beginner program then foil is the best. I think at that level, its easier to go from foil to epee or sabre then any other transition. Once you start to develop in any given weapon, things change though.

I think the use of the point, and the existence of RoW make it an easier transition.

[garyhayenga]

Mistake? From foil you can transition to Sabre and Epee easily. It's difficult to transfer from epee to sabre and vis versa.

No, it's not actually difficult to transition from epee to sabre at all, and only slightly more so transitioning from sabre to epee.

The difficult part is transitioning from to foil from sabre or epee. Very few people make that transition with ease. While transitioning from foil to sabre, or foil to epee, is relatively easy.

[jessicasimpson]

no one transfers to foil because have experienced epee or saber. If this thread is going to be "which weapon should you start with", then you should start with what weapon the best coach at your club is best at coaching.

[RebelFencer]

If you understand how to fence then it doesn't matter what weapon you start with. Yes, the footwork is different... which is why you don't fence saber with Epee footwork and vice versa. You can transition good footwork into any weapon. If you understand fencing then you can have a basic understanding of RoW, which will only improve if you're training in that weapon. So yeah, anyone who thinks you have to start in foil is retarded, the most important thing is having a quality coach (which is a shame because the only quality coach in the division I used to fence in has quit coaching).

[edew]

Mistake? From foil you can transition to Sabre and Epee easily. It's difficult to transfer from epee to sabre and vis versa.

Nope. I've seen foil fencers try to transition to saber. Ugly.

[Inquartata]

Oh, look, this thread has become exactly what the OP said did NOT interest him! What a surprise.

My answer: Foil and epee are more popular because they have been around longer than sabre, and fenced electrically longer than sabre.

Epee is the most popular weapon in the world hands down, because it is so freaking awesome.

You are half right. It's freaking.

[telkanuru]

How do you figure that?

Because you're wrong.