Cleaning a blade without acetone.

[big daddy]

Is there a way to clean glue out of blades with the use of acetone?. I need some ideas other than the acetone pipe.

[DHCJr]

Is there a way to clean glue out of blades with the use of acetone?. I need some ideas other than the acetone pipe.

There are many top Armorers who have never used an acetone pipe.

For me, I use a combination of a wire wheel, exacto knife and green or brown scrubbing pad. I also do not use super glue which is harder to get out and is not as flexible as I like.

I have a wire wheel attached to a bench grinder and on the road I use one attached to a dremel. This is used to get off the major part of the glue.

The exacto the rest.

I use the scrubbing pad to highlight where I have missed. The bare blade will be shiny, while the glue will be dull.

[SJCFU#2]

You can also use a hot air gun or even a micro-torch - cyanoacrilate glues break down long before the blade gets warm enough to alter the temper of the steel. Just be sure that you're in a well ventilated space before trying this - some of the fumes can be pretty nasty.

You can also buy solvents specifically formulated to break down CA glues (Zap's Z7 debonder comes to mind).

In truth, a lot hinges on the glue that you're trying to clean from the blade.

[BenTheEMOP]

Depending on the glue, I have had luck with a flat-head screwdriver and a pocketknife.

[JacoKierkegaard]

Dremel with an aluminum oxide abrasive wheel. The wheel wears down quickly though, but they're cheap and good for several wiring jobs. Not what I would pick if I were in a situation where I had to wire a whole lot of weapons, but it's fine for maintaining my own gear.

[brtech]

Most senior armorers use a dremel with a cutoff wheel. Many start with some sort of heat: heat gun or torch to get the wire and most of the glue out. Most is not all: you see lots of variation. Some have the pipe, which they use when they are not in a hurry.

Some just use the dremel for the whole job.

The dremel gets the groove very clean, very quickly. You need some skill, but not a whole lot.

I use a heat gun and then the dremel, although i've been carrying my torch more these days. Takes less weight in my kit

[JacoKierkegaard]

Most senior armorers use a dremel with a cutoff wheel. Many start with some sort of heat: heat gun or torch to get the wire and most of the glue out. Most is not all: you see lots of variation. Some have the pipe, which they use when they are not in a hurry.

Question about using the cutoff wheel: I've been using an abrasive wheel instead of the cutoff because I'm paranoid the cutoff will cut through my blade. This is for an epee, by the way. Is the blade too hard for the wheel to go through, or are you just being really careful with it? Is this better for foil, with the tiny little groove instead of the wide epee groove?

[migopod]

Question about using the cutoff wheel: I've been using an abrasive wheel instead of the cutoff because I'm paranoid the cutoff will cut through my blade. This is for an epee, by the way. Is the blade too hard for the wheel to go through, or are you just being really careful with it? Is this better for foil, with the tiny little groove instead of the wide epee groove?

Dremmel cutoff wheels will go through epees. That's one method I have used to cut tangs to length. It takes some time and pressure to go through though, so using light pressure and not lingering excessively long in one spot wouldn't be an issue.

*edit, you don't really even have to be "really careful".

[Purple Fencer]

Question about using the cutoff wheel: I've been using an abrasive wheel instead of the cutoff because I'm paranoid the cutoff will cut through my blade. This is for an epee, by the way. Is the blade too hard for the wheel to go through, or are you just being really careful with it? Is this better for foil, with the tiny little groove instead of the wide epee groove?

If you use a diamond cutting wheel, there's no worry...you could sit on the blade for 5 minutes in the same spot and not cut through the blade (unless you're in a spot the manufacturer cut too deeply in the first place).

With the reinforced fibreglass cutting wheel, you DO have to be a bit careful, but like Migopod said, you don't have to lay it that hard. Put a slight amount of pressure (less than the weight of the dremel itself, actually), and run the wheel down the length of the blade in one pass (best to put the blade in a vise so you can put both hands on the dremel for stability and control).

Find a blade that's snapped and play with it.

[Rockstar44]

Put a slight amount of pressure (less than the weight of the dremel itself, actually), and run the wheel down the length of the blade in one pass (best to put the blade in a vise so you can put both hands on the dremel for stability and control).

I find that it works better if you immobilize the Dremel and run the blade down the disc (think table saw here).

Most is not all: you see lots of variation.

[Purple Fencer]

I find that it works better if you immobilize the Dremel and run the blade down the disc (think table saw here).

Like Dan says....there's no right or wrong way....there's whatever works. Clamping the blade in the vise means if there's a slip, my hands don't come down on a spinning cutting wheel!

[Rockstar44]

Like Dan says....there's no right or wrong way....there's whatever works.

Right. What works best works best. Everybody has their own tricks and methods.

[migopod]

I am curious though. There are methods that don't use an acetone bomb and armourers who prefer to use mechanical/thermal methods of blade prep, but is there ultimately a really good reason to not use acetone besides I suppose inhalation and transportation hazards or TSA regulations? I keep my acetone bomb in the garage and haven't really had any safety issues to contend with. Hell, I have way more dangerous stuff in the house proper like acetylene bottles.

[Purple Fencer]

I am curious though. There are methods that don't use an acetone bomb and armourers who prefer to use mechanical/thermal methods of blade prep, but is there ultimately a really good reason to not use acetone besides I suppose inhalation and transportation hazards or TSA regulations? I keep my acetone bomb in the garage and haven't really had any safety issues to contend with. Hell, I have way more dangerous stuff in the house proper like acetylene bottles.

If you have no place to properly use it, perhaps...or simply don't want to deal with the chemical in the first place.

There HAVE been some glues that even a 3 day soak didn't help...irritating.

[brtech]

If you have the time, use the acetone. I don't like it primarily because of the smell and the vapor issues, but it sure is easy. The problem I have is that it's slow, and I'm usually in a hurry. That's because most of the work i do is at tournaments, and rewires are rush jobs.

You might ask Twister for an opinion. As i recall, Swordmasters started out using acetone for rewires. These days, they torch 'em. Most of their repair is not rush, although everyone wants their repair right now, their volume means there is always a wait, and it's long enough for acetone to do its thing.

[damianip]

Couple of thoughts concerning glue, torches and grinding:

• Burning adhesives is unwise without proper ventilation, particularly the cyanoacrylates. The combustion products are nasty.
• Taking a torch to a blade is prohibited by the rulebook - M.12.2

All methods of soldering or brazing or in general any heating which may affect the temper of the blade are forbidden. Only solder of very easily melted tin, used with a soldering iron, to prevent the tip from coming loose, is authorized.

• Grinding which contacts the blade will create localized heating which will affect the heat treatment of the blade.
• Plus, it, too, is technically forbidden by the rules: M1

The weapon should be so constructed that it cannot normally injure either the user or his opponent. All methods of treating a blade between the guard and the tip (point), by grinding, filing or other methods, are forbidden.

• Certain CA adhesives are better than others while some are completely unsuitable. However, Zap-a-Gap's gap filling formula is about as good as it gets. I can't remember the last time a blade I assembled with it popped a wire.
• That glue that acetone won't even take off is whatever LP uses to assemble their blades, I think. Three days of soaking and a lot of exacto work to clean those up.

Paolo

[migopod]

Couple of thoughts concerning glue, torches and grinding:

• Burning adhesives is unwise without proper ventilation, particularly the cyanoacrylates. The combustion products are nasty.
• Taking a torch to a blade is prohibited by the rulebook - M.12.2

• Grinding which contacts the blade will create localized heating which will affect the heat treatment of the blade.
• Plus, it, too, is technically forbidden by the rules: M1

• Certain CA adhesives are better than others while some are completely unsuitable. However, Zap-a-Gap's gap filling formula is about as good as it gets. I can't remember the last time a blade I assembled with it popped a wire.
• That glue that acetone won't even take off is whatever LP uses to assemble their blades, I think. Three days of soaking and a lot of exacto work to clean those up.

Paolo

You can definitely use a microtorch or heat gun to remove glues at temperatures that would not affect the temper of the blade. As far as grinding, would that include any form of sanding?

[Purple Fencer]

Wrong on the grinding....grinding that would affect the flexibility of the blade is illegal....grinding to remove a wire or otherwise clean the groove is not. And U highly doubt any heat generated by a small diamond wheel's going to do anything to the flexibility of the blade....the wheel itself heats up too much, and only then if you sit on one spot for a bit.

[K O'N]

Couple of thoughts concerning glue, torches and grinding:

• Burning adhesives is unwise without proper ventilation, particularly the cyanoacrylates. The combustion products are nasty.
• Taking a torch to a blade is prohibited by the rulebook - M.12.2

• Grinding which contacts the blade will create localized heating which will affect the heat treatment of the blade.
• Plus, it, too, is technically forbidden by the rules: M1

Scoring with a dremel wheel is ok, I think. You are not intending to or accomplishing any significant metal removal, you're scratching the surface to key it for the glue. Same thing you do with an exacto knife, only faster. If I can't score the surface with a dremel I'm not sure I'm allowed to with sandpaper either.

• Certain CA adhesives are better than others while some are completely unsuitable. However, Zap-a-Gap's gap filling formula is about as good as it gets. I can't remember the last time a blade I assembled with it popped a wire.
• That glue that acetone won't even take off is whatever LP uses to assemble their blades, I think. Three days of soaking and a lot of exacto work to clean those up.

Epoxy, I bet. Use a heat gun or small torch.

K O'N

[damianip]

Scoring with a dremel wheel is ok, I think. You are not intending to or accomplishing any significant metal removal, you're scratching the surface to key it for the glue. Same thing you do with an exacto knife, only faster. If I can't score the surface with a dremel I'm not sure I'm allowed to with sandpaper either.

They are not the same. There is a reason that sparks fly when a grinding wheel hits steel: the steel gets so hot that it reacts with oxygen in the air and burns.

So we have mechanically generated heat (from friction and shear) and chemically generated (iron turning back to an oxide) heat at the point of contact.

Sanding (by hand) happens much more slowly, allowing adequate dissipation and preventing localized concentrations of heat.

Once again, the rules were written that way for a reason. The first rule of metallurgical failure analysis is "Blame the heat treater". Why?? Because heat treatments are sensitive to thermal and environmental abuse by those who think "This won't hurt anything",

This often leads to failure, as degraded performance or out and out breakage.

Epoxy, I bet. Use a heat gun or small torch.

K O'N

I agree with your suspicion but have already expressed my concerns about the alternative method of remove.

Paolo