real weapons that can be used with fencing skills

[Gav]

Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673
Seriously expect? I have said that I myself didn't know what I would do. I like to have speculative disucssions about things like this. I am not suggesting fencing rules, but techniques. What I percieve to be stupid is how some people on this board are taking this topic too seriously.

DJ - Why would anyone find a visconti out of the ordinary?

True.

My remark wasn't aimed at you by the way.

[D'Artagnan1673]

okay, sorry.

[Inquartata]

Odd coincidence---today while channel-surfing I came across an old episode of "Bonanza" and was startled to see Michael Landon fending off two bad guys in a hotel room...with an umbrella! Fencing with rear hand in the classical position and all! ( Finally one of the villains grabbed it and tore it out of his hands, forcing him to overturn a table on the guy and go out the window. )

Anyway, though we've been having some fun with this, of course you could use an umbrella as a weapon. It wouldn't be very smart, and you had better be nimble with your disengages lest you get the thing taken away from you. But you could do it...

[Sildar]

Originally posted by Gav
Paul is one of the few local Historical fencers that I have the time for, unlike a lot of Historical Fencers, Paul has the ability to fence and also has the depth of knowledge to be good on his subject. I have a lot of time for Paul even if I think that a lot of British [I can't speak about other nationalities] Historical Fencers are of the 'romantic' kind.

Yes, Paul is one of the best Historical Fencers in the UK, and the world for that matter. A fine fellow too.

It's not just British HFers; there's some really awful stuff passing itself off as "Historical" Fencing in the US too, but some of us are trying to change that.

Shame about the fire

D'art-

When anyone asks about the visconti just tell them it's an orthopedic grip; I find most non-fencers will assume you have arthritis or some other ailment causing you joint pain...

[HilandDoug]

Gav wrote: "I live in Edinburgh, we've just had a major fire in the city which Has destroyed a large section of Cowgate area. This area is part of World heritage site and many of the destryoed buildings were irreplaceable. It's very sad."

Man, I LOVE that city! How bad was it? Were a lot of historical buildings destroyed? I'm mildly surprised that I hadn't heard about it on the news here in the US.

[Zelda]

Man, I have been trying to find out where that fire was ever since I heard on the news. I love Edinburgh and have some very found memories of the festival. Cowgate has a perfusion of wonderful little performance areas, many of which I believe have been lost. Its really sad taht our history can disappear like that....
(We now return to the topic of this discussion)

[Gav]

Noone is sure exactly how it started. It started in a flat above a night club. Due to the Medieval layout of that section of Edinburgh once the fire caught it was off and running. It spread down into the lower levels of that tenemant and then across one side of the Cowgate. The result: One side of the Cowgate has been almost completely destroyed. Firefighters managed to save some of the facades and it isn't clear how much is really salvagable. Noone is sure what caused it yet, if it was arson... [draws finger across throat]

There is apparently to be a period of public consultation on the way forward for the damaged section. Personally I hope it is restored to its former self.

[HilandDoug]

I certainly hope they try to rebuild, capturing the old charm it had before the fire. I'm glad I got to see it before it burned, but still, how sad!

[Falling Cow]

Back to the umbrella thing, I can't imagine how an attacker grabbing your umbrella would have to be a bad thing. If he grabs it and you hold on, you now have control of his arm. You also prevent hiim from getting away. It is human nature to hold on, so he's stuck. If you let go when he grabs your umbrella, then there will be a second where he is fumbling with it. If you jump in and hit him as he's still getting set I don't think he could do anything about it. These arn't exactly fencing concepts, but I'm more of a martial artist than a fencer. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't bother fencing with the umbrella. I would just goad the person into grabbing it and do one of the things I just said. So know I'm confused, what side am I on?

[Swordsman]

Take the mugger open-handed; fencing still applies. Let him come after you with the knife, and use timing and distance principles: When he goes to slash (or even stab), catch his arm on the follow-through. Suddenly his arm is across him, and he has no leverage. Due to the direction that the standard human elbow bends, he also can't use the knife without switching hands. By the time he can think to switch hands, you've done one of two things, depending on your mood:

1. Punch him in the chest, knocking the wind out of him. From here he'll double over and you can kick him in the face.

2. Punch him in the throat, crushing his trachea. From here he'll suffocate in a few minutes.

Yes, he might be good enough not to over-swing, or have better distance/timing than you. But chances are, a thug will not. I've dealt with plenty of morons at school this way. Thankfully none were coming at me with a knife, but one had a pair of shoes he was using like a flail (Doc Martens can hurt, man!), and one was just swinging. Everybody at my current school seems to think that punching is the best way to win a fight...

But I digress. Basic principles of fencing can be applied to everything from a full-out fight to a mugging to parrying the red-headed pixie who's trying to tickle you. I haven't fenced for a year and a half now, and I executed a beautiful parry in sixth with my arm just the other day.

[Falling Cow]

I can't disagree with anything you have said, but it could use some clarification. First, yes that would work against a knife, but not always. There is a reason that knives are the only edged weapon still widely used. They work. A person with a knife can cut you when you try to block. Yes, it can be done. However, people who have studied empty hand fighting for years have trouble with it. My advise, as a second degree black belt, would be get a weapon or get away, preferably get away. Depending on your attacker being an idiot is not a good policy. To paraphrase the Riddler, they only have to win once.

I have heard several people mention that fencing distance/timing can be applied to self defence situations. Again I can't disagree, but it needs some clarification. Punching and kicking distance is different than fencing distance. That gets me in trouble when I fence. I would agree that a fencer would learn these concepts, in relation to empty hand fighting, faster than a normal person, but they would still have to learn.

I still say an umbrella, or a cane, would be a good weapon. You could thrust to tender areas, and if your attacker gets a hand on it you can close the distance and go to fists. I bet that crook in the cane handle would make a decent pistol grip.