Tournament Schedule Updated 1/29

[hello?]

It appears that the tournament schedule has been revised:

http://usfencing.org/news/2009/12/22...0111?ngb_id=19

Good news: Vets still there and there appear to be three Div 1 NACs!!!!

Bad News (potentially): Div 2 and Div 1 in October, along with Vets. Will Vet events potentially conflict with either Div 2 or Div 1, making Vets have to choose what to fence, thereby reducing the lure for non-World-contender-Vets to go to NACs?

Also, Vets who might make the team had complained about how close this was to the World Cup. I guess those complaints were disregarded.

Anyway, this will be voted on in two weeks. So, if you have a problem/compliment, let your voices be heard now.

[fdad]

It appears that the tournament schedule has been revised:

http://usfencing.org/news/2009/12/22...0111?ngb_id=19

Good news: Vets still there and there appear to be three Div 1 NACs!!!!

Bad News (potentially): Div 2 and Div 1 in October, along with Vets. Will Vet events potentially conflict with either Div 2 or Div 1, making Vets have to choose what to fence, thereby reducing the lure for non-World-contender-Vets to go to NACs?

Also, Vets who might make the team had complained about how close this was to the World Cup. I guess those complaints were disregarded.

Anyway, this will be voted on in two weeks. So, if you have a problem/compliment, let your voices be heard now.

I like this version much better than any previous proposal, but...

I would understand if the top Vets had a problem since the NAC that potentially offers them multiple events (Oct: D1,D2,Vets*), assuming it falls on Columbus Day weekend, occurs a week and a half after the World Championships - But its still better than a Vet ROC.

The Cadet/Junior world team will be in a similar situation since the WCs are 4/2-10 and the April Div 1 NAC is likely to follow that closely.

The Seniors world team (depending on the weapon typically composed of some/all juniors/cadets) will have an actual conflict between WCs on 11/4-1 and the Nov Junior/Cadet NAC.

Edit: Doh! My FIE Dates are for this season, not next season, so for Vets and Senior they match but for Junior/Cadet there is no change this year (possibly next year though)

[Soberin]

I like this version much better than any previous proposal, but...

I would understand if the top Vets had a problem since the NAC that potentially offers them multiple events (Oct: D1,D2,Vets*), assuming it falls on Columbus Day weekend, occurs a week and a half after the World Championships - But its still better than a Vet ROC.

The Cadet/Junior world team will be in a similar situation since the WCs are 4/2-10 and the April Div 1 NAC is likely to follow that closely.

The Seniors world team (depending on the weapon typically composed of some/all juniors/cadets) will have an actual conflict between WCs on 11/4-1 and the Nov Junior/Cadet NAC.

Edit: Doh! My FIE Dates are for this season, not next season, but its possible that these problems will be similar next year.

These are not really major problems. This new schedule really corrects the majority of the issues and is the best thing for the entire membership. BTW, the Cadet/Junior WC are always before the April NAC, they don't overlap. No problem having the April NAC a week or two after Cadet/Junior WC.

[fdad]

These are not really major problems. This new schedule really corrects the majority of the issues and is the best thing for the entire membership. BTW, the Cadet/Junior WC are always before the April NAC, they don't overlap. No problem having the April NAC a week or two after Cadet/Junior WC.

Yes, the kids tend to bounce back quicker than the Vets.

[alpine]

It appears that the tournament schedule has been revised:

http://usfencing.org/news/2009/12/22...0111?ngb_id=19

Good news: Vets still there and there appear to be three Div 1 NACs!!!!

Bad News (potentially):

Only one Div III NAC. Last I saw, the Div III events were drawing plenty of competitors. I hope this isn't a "cut off your nose to spite your face" situation. All in all though, this is definitely an improvement over the last version of the schedule.

[KD5MDK]

Bad News (potentially): Div 2 and Div 1 in October, along with Vets. Will Vet events potentially conflict with either Div 2 or Div 1, making Vets have to choose what to fence, thereby reducing the lure for non-World-contender-Vets to go to NACs?

I would expect not. With 4 days, and 5 event categories, I expect each weapon will have one event on each day, and the teams will conflict with either the Vet Combined or the age-groups. Probably the Combined, since it's unimportant for team selection.

[Peach]

No specific date in October; I assume the proposed dates are still mid-October? Just to be a broken record: I would be happier if the Div I/II/Vet were toward the end. At the (then) age of 59, assuming I make another world team, I'm not enthusiastic about flying to Croatia right after the beginning of the school year when I'm exhausted and stressed, competing the last day, flying back, working a week and a half, and then missing another day to fly to wherever in order to compete (in a different age group, plus the Vet Combined, and also possibly in the Div I). It's not my first choice. But that's just me.

[hello?]

Do we know what this new schedule 'solves' that was a problem with the current one? Just wondering.

[telkanuru]

Maybe they realized that out of all the groups, DIII was least likely to raise a fuss

[alpine]

Maybe they realized that out of all the groups, DIII was least likely to raise a fuss

Yeah, no need to give those uppity Div III folks the idea that they might amount to anything someday. Besides, everyone knows we have all the talent we need for total world domination in the Div I ranks already!

[telkanuru]

Yeah, no need to give those uppity Div III folks the idea that they might amount to anything someday. Besides, everyone knows we have all the talent we need for total world domination in the Div I ranks already!

Eh, I'm more quiescent about losing a DIII, first because I haven't been qualified for it since '04, and second because it's a great tool for getting your feet wet on the national scene, but for any other purpose it's simply a cluster****.

[alpine]

Eh, I'm more quiescent about losing a DIII, first because I haven't been qualified for it since '04, and second because it's a great tool for getting your feet wet on the national scene, but for any other purpose it's simply a cluster****.

It has been said before... A broad base makes for a stronger tower. If you eliminate the opportunities for more people to get their feet wet, you could potentially reduce the numbers feeding into the higher levels of competition.

I can't fence Div III any more either but that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop thinking about what is best for fencing overall. The thing that bothers me most about all of this scheduling stuff is that we seem to keep hearing lots of "we can't do this and we can't do that" rather than things that would indicate a more positive attitude.

[fdad]

It has been said before... A broad base makes for a stronger tower. If you eliminate the opportunities for more people to get their feet wet, you could potentially reduce the numbers feeding into the higher levels of competition.

I can't fence Div III any more either but that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop thinking about what is best for fencing overall. The thing that bothers me most about all of this scheduling stuff is that we seem to keep hearing lots of "we can't do this and we can't do that" rather than things that would indicate a more positive attitude.

I think it would be reasonable to reduce the D3 NACs if there were D3 ROCs and they were guaranteed C3 events.

[hello?]

Again (and I can't fence Div 3 either)....we are 'thinking' of changing the current schedule because....?

[eac]

I don't mind losing Div 3's either. In Div 2, in my experience, there are usually some people who have at least a vague idea of what's going on, and they tend to do better, and the people who go out earlier can say, well, he does this better, and that's why he's still in. Not always, but there's a component of that. And when you do well in Div 2, there's a fair chance that it was because you were at least somewhat together, and you get a taste of what it's like to be somewhat together at a national tournament, and that's a lot of the appeal of having Div 2 in the first place.

In Div 3, my experience is that random sh!t happens the whole way through, and you can never really say that.

Edit: In terms of diffs with the current schedule, they made the following changes:
- Moved a Cadet from October to January
- Moved the Dec Div I and Vet and Wheelchair to October
- Killed the October Div III

And that's really it. Also they renamed some of the events at nationals from championships to NACs, because they want to get credit for repainting the shed.

I should point out that a top Cadet will have a *lot* of fencing in January if s/he chooses to do all three events at the NAC.

[Fendi]

Does nobody else have a problem with the Cadet/Junior events at Nationals not being National Championships? I have a solution: Eliminate JOs. Now, before you freak out, give me a chance. JOs was created by Larry Calhoun years ago to give Junior fencers a chance to fence each other on a national level before the advent of the NAC. ( Waaaay before...) It's a bloated, artificial tournament that has outlived its original purpose and is no longer needed. Let's just have a regular season of NACs for Cadets and Juniors, and move the Championships in those age groups back to Summer Nationals where they belong.

JOs are notoriously uneven in skill levels, with fencers from the middle of nowhere qualifying just because they showed up, and then getting slaughtered by the big guns. Getting rid of JOs also eliminates the need for those pesky JOs quals, which in my division are always a nightmare to schedule.

Am I crazy, or does this make a lot of sense?

[Inquartata]

But that's just me.

No, it isn't.

Notice too that this makes something like 5 months between the first and second Vet NACs. I don't know about you, but I don't need quite that much recuperative time between tournaments...

[KD5MDK]

And that's really it. Also they renamed some of the events at nationals from championships to NACs, because they want to get credit for repainting the shed.

This also means Y14, Junior and Cadet events at Summer Nationals no longer need qualifiers, so Divisions and Sections have less they need to do.

Does nobody else have a problem with the Cadet/Junior events at Nationals not being National Championships?
Am I crazy, or does this make a lot of sense?

So your proposal is to put the National Junior Championships 3 months after the World Championships, so the National Champion may have nothing to do with making the World Team?

[Soberin]

This also means Y14, Junior and Cadet events at Summer Nationals no longer need qualifiers, so Divisions and Sections have less they need to do.



So your proposal is to put the National Junior Championships 3 months after the World Championships, so the National Champion may have nothing to do with making the World Team?

All your points are correct in my view. That is why the current proposed schedule is the best option.

[lewis]

Many of the top fencers do not fence DIVIII. But for us it was a great opportunity to DO something at a NAC as a beginner and whet the whistle so to speak for coming back to others. But given that no one at the usfa seems to care about this event; timing, ref selection, etc. it is also potentially a bad example for beginners. If it is not going to be treated with respect maybe it is better to let it go......