Some advice on watching......

[remise]

I fence epee and my children both fence foil. I just wanted some feedback from parents and kids on this....

I notice that many parents who watch their children (I don't want to say 'push', but offer constructive criticism) after they've either lost a bout, or even if they've won. How do you feel about that, or how WOULD you feel about it if your parents did it? I'm asking because I tend to drift over to the epee fencers and leave my kids sort of on their own. It occurred to me one evening that perhaps my kids may think that my lack of commenting could be interpreted as I don't care. Actually, I'm just trying to give them their space, but after seeing what I saw the other evening, I'm wondering if I'm really doing the right thing.

[graham]

I don't have a problem with it when the advice is limited to coping with a loss, or maintaining focus. When it gets into the realm, however, of offering fencing 'advice' (e.g. "you should hit him harder" ...) I have a problem. That is the coach's role, or at least the role of somebody who has fencing experience. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very frequently around here.

I do offer my son some constructive criticism on occasion, but it usually takes the form of 'I think that maintaining distance was a bit of an issue with that last bout. Why don't you ask the coach about it?'. I have no illusions that I have much to offer my son in terms of concrete advice - I have just started the sport myself. Even if I were better equipped to advise I still think it is the coach's role. Being a typical 12-year old, he probably wouldn't listen to me anyway.

GT

[Zelda]

I didnt start fencing till I was 20 so this hasnt really been an issue for me. However I fenced at a club in Brisbane that had a lot of juniors. Many of our juniors parents just dropped them off and picked them up and chaperoned them to competitions. I can not think of a single state cirucut comp where we have had parents stay the whole time. They generally are there at the beginning and at the end. Most of our juniors seem to like thier parents caring about how they did but not trying to muscle in onto "their" thing. Even at Nationals the juniors parents dont really seem to "coach" from the sidelines, it more likely to be coaches and teamates. My advice... be there for your kids when they need you, but if they tell you to "go away" disappear until they need you again.

[FHPyro4L]

It's an adrenaline rush to hear my parents and friends cheering me on before or after a bout. But if I lose, and I know it's because I screwed up, it's definately better to leave me alone, because I don't take my own mistakes lightly.

[damianip]

I usually give him space. We're both épéeists so usually I'm either competing myself or directing.

If it happens that I'm watching, I usually will give moral support through cheering, but I avoid giving advice. We are too close in ability (he definitely has the edge in the physical aspects) and too different in style for me to really help.

After the bout I'll usually comment on something, especially if he lost in spite of fencing well (I want him to know that he did well). I'll offer some observations for him to bring to his coach, but usually no comment on problems with technique. I'll express admiration for his good touches plus cheering, water, hugs: that's what works.

Advice: that's what we pay the coach for.

Paolo

[Mo]

I ask my kids what they are comfy with and abide by their decisions.
Usually I am there to cheer (within reason), run and get the coach and supply drinks. I carry weapons, make sure they have everything they need and get really nervous while they are fencing.
If the kids need some space to feel better, they get it. If they need a mom they get that too.
Another thing, sometimes other fencers need a mom (or dad) even if they are well into their 20's. Being around and supportive is a good thing for a parent to do.
Coaching is not good unless you really know your stuff. I will go as far as a "mix it up" and "nice point" but it is up to the coach to coach. That is what we pay for as parent checkbooks.
We don't have the problem anymore since changing clubs, but if the coach has a tendency to be nasty if the kids do not perform well enough (which is so arbitrary) we used to run interference.
Just standing next to your kid when the coach has that look on his face can tell them in no uncertain terms that no abuse will occur.
Fencing is a game, a sport, it is not worth having your kid hysterical because of it.
We just got back from the Division 1 meet, it was just plain brutal.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Support from the parents is fine, and I feel better that my parents are somewhat involved, and not bored sitting there. But advice such as what Graham said "You should hit ihm harder" or my favorie, "He is shorter then you, just hit down" are ridiculous and someimes get in the way. But with your fenicng experience I think it would be helpful, almost as a second coach.

[Peach]

I'm with Mo, you should find out what your kids want and go with that. My daughter doesn't want me on strip or in the vicinity because she reacts against anything I say and doesn't like getting angry with me. A friend of mine prefers to have her parents around to cheer for her on the strip, and so she can bite their heads off between bouts. Whatever works.

Speaking with my other hat on as a referee and a teacher, I prefer parents to trust their kids more, and to assume that kids will learn things if they have a chance to make a few mistakes. For instance, they shouldn't be helping their kids hook up--I tell the kids to help each other out--because hooking them up makes the children feel, not supported, but sort of helpless. Even an 8-year-old can hook up with another 8-year-old helping--that's what I do with the kids in my club.

[The0ne]

I am a 14 year old fencer and i prefer it when my parents are not there, its kind of like they are just a distraction because they know nothing about fencing but try to offer me good advice. . .
nothing as outrageous as "hit harder" or "he's shorter than you just attack down" but i just need to either listen to my coach or mentally think my game through

The0ne

[Catlady]

I'm not a parent yet and took up fencing as an adult--and despite invitations my Mom has never seen me fence, even in practice bouts because she says she can't stand to see someone "stabbing" me. My advice based on what I'd want if I were a coach and my experience in other sports--tennis and equestrian-- that I got involved with when I was a kid, I'd say the following. It depends on the parent. For the most part I would say unless you have fencing experience yourself you should limit your advice to non-fencing aspects such as reminding them not to get flustered or lose their temper, or reminding them to drink lots of water. Even if you do have some fencing experience be sure you're not saying something in conflict with what the coach says. Ultimately, it's the coach's job to be coach, and your job to be mom/dad and moral support. Basically it's hard on the kid when you stray too far into the coaching domain, they've got a big conflict: Do I listen to coach, or do I listen to Mom/Dad? Of course reinforcing what the coach says such as saying "Now remember what the coach said about your distance" before going on strip, especially if the coach is busy elsewhere, is probably all right.

Whether or not to be there is touchy. I have and always had a pretty close relationship with my parents, besides a short period when I was around 14 where I requested that they stay a block or two behind me in public -- and I wouldn't have minded having them around had I been fencing then, but it depends on the kid. I know some people who fence worse when the coach is watching and some who fence better; most are adults. So ultimately, it's not even a parent issue, it's a familiar person issue. So, yes ask the kid what they want you to do. That's the best practice with everything anyway.

[135711]

[quote]Originally posted by remise
[b]I fence epee and my children both fence foil. I just wanted some feedback from parents and kids on this....

How do you feel about that, or how WOULD you feel about it if your parents did it.


I think it would depend on your kid. After doing a little bit of teaching to 9th graders and taking a bunch of classes on childhood development, it boils down to the individual. But you have to have a little radar, as they get older they'll need you less and less, but if you take a look at them from across the room once in a while, you should be able to tell if they're in trouble, need assistance, or just a little pep talk, or congratulations. Read Bill Cosby.

[a517dogg]

I need my parents to be as far away as possible. Maybe if they carry water or something that's fine, but if they open their mouths that's it. Maybe 10% of what my dad (a new fencer) will say will not detract from my concentration, and 100% of what my mom says will just piss me off. My advice to all parents is to make sure that the coach knows where their kid is and when he's fencing, and make sure that all his or her teammates know, and then to watch from a distance.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally posted by a517dogg
I need my parents to be as far away as possible. Maybe if they carry water or something that's fine, but if they open their mouths that's it. Maybe 10% of what my dad (a new fencer) will say will not detract from my concentration, and 100% of what my mom says will just piss me off. My advice to all parents is to make sure that the coach knows where their kid is and when he's fencing, and make sure that all his or her teammates know, and then to watch from a distance.

How sad.... Who pays for you to go to the meets?
What a return for your parent's investments in your fencing.

[Zelda]

I still maintain that it depends on your child, their mood, your ability to not piss them off and the mood of the tourney. I know that last one sounds silly but I have been to competitions where people arelaughing and joking between bouts and others when they are fencing the exact same people I will be tense and irritable.

[Peach]

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
How sad.... Who pays for you to go to the meets?
What a return for your parent's investments in your fencing.

I've paid for a lot of things for my daughter, including fencing, and I did it not as a personal investment but as an opportunity for her to grow and become an adult. When I got bored hanging around at practice and at tournaments because she's the kind of fencer who is not benefited by parental presence, I took up fencing myself.

[oiuyt]

I see things similarly to Peach and Zelda. It's highly dependent on the fencer in question, what's going on, the competition, etc.

I know that for me I can't have my mother there when I fence. For whatever reason (I have some speculations but nothing concrete) I badly underperform when she's watching. So now she's not allowed to. Similarly I wouldn't allow my sister or grandmother to watch (less of an issue, they don't really care to in the first place). Empirically having my father there is not a problem, whether he's interacting with me or merely watching from afar. I've had a couple of uncles and an aunt watch as well without problems, each of them on several occasions. The biggest difference that I can see is the nature of my relationships with each of these people and therefore how I interact with them between bouts/rounds. None of my family fences. The level to which I need to explain things, or even the amount that I feel the need to explain thigns definately factors in. Another big factors is that the people who I can have watching are better at picking up when I'm in an expressive mood and can just chat comfortably about the competition (or other random topics) and the people who I can't have watching tend to be less perceptive of these (VERY admittedly) subtle differences.

Because none of my family fences and I started in college there's never been the issue of family members doing anything that could be construed as coaching. The closest that they come is on occasion asking why I did something the way I did or what I was trying to do. Rather than use that as a means to guide me towards something that would help improve my fencing (a common use of the technique) they're asking for their own personal edification. They know they don't know much about fencing and would like to learn more. When I'm doing well, or at least not poorly I'm nearly always relaxed enough to be able to spend my inter-bout time doing just that.

In short, it depends. It depends on the relationships between the people, the people themselves, the time, the occasion, how the fencer is doing/feeling, and a whole host of other things. No one way is The Way to do things. If what you're doing is working, great, go with it. If your child asks for something else, try that.

-B :)

[remise]

I want to thank everyone for their input. I guess both kids are comfortable with things the way they are. After reading your posts, I took more notice to their reactions (I never realized how many times they'd poke their heads in the armory) so I asked them,"Is everything ok?" and they'd say,"Just making sure you're here..." I don't know where I'd disapear to, since the armory HAS no exit...still, I was insecure, so I prodded a bit,"Do you feel I should go out and watch you guys?" Their replies - "No. My sister just broke her foil. You're right where you need to be." Nice to feel wanted, isn't it?