Antalya Men's Foil uploaded YOUTUBE

[lguillemin]

Hey guys,

It's the weekend, and that means more fencing videos!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/trueflipmode

I've uploaded Zhu vs Joppich...Baldini vs Sedov... Zhu vs Baldini!!

[Foil.Leicester]

I ****ing love you

[lguillemin]

Do you want women's foil too?

[acsraj]

Do you want women's foil too?

Please upload the WF video. Thank you!

[epeeslasher]

You are awesome, thank you. Women's foil would also be great.

Did anyone notice how close Baldini was fencing? Like direct lunging distance the entire time.

[eac]

I yearn for Baldini's bouts in the earlier rounds of some tournament. It's clear that he can do what he does (e.g. be so close) to the top people because they know that it's bad to do the obvious thing, which is just try to hit him when he's that close. Seeing him against second-tier people would presumably clarify why that's a bad idea.

I should note that against Joppich (see http://www.youtube.com/FIEvideo#p/search/1/d4WFM_66CN8) he can't quite do that, presumably because Joppich is so effective at scoring in squirming chaotic infighting.

[Foil.Leicester]

I yearn for Baldini's bouts in the earlier rounds of some tournament. It's clear that he can do what he does (e.g. be so close) to the top people because they know that it's bad to do the obvious thing, which is just try to hit him when he's that close. Seeing him against second-tier people would presumably clarify why that's a bad idea.

I should note that against Joppich (see http://www.youtube.com/FIEvideo#p/search/1/d4WFM_66CN8) he can't quite do that, presumably because Joppich is so effective at scoring in squirming chaotic infighting.

The impression I've got is that against the top tier fencers they already know going for the simple attack isn't worth their time so they don't bother. For this you can see how Zhu and Joppich fence against him, they're thinking compound from the start.

However if you watch the match against Huang Liangcai from the Tokyo Grand-Prix, perhaps someone who fits your bill of a 'second tier' fencer, he takes quite a long time before the first hit (1:02 I think?). During this time he is maneuvering at close distance baiting the direct attack.

By drawing the direct action a couple of times and getting out of the way easily he's made it abundantly clear that he's not going to be hit with such a simple action, effectively forcing Huang into the compound action. He then repeats this maneuvering periodically through the match just to bring home the point.

So in my eyes its not so much a case of there being a direct punishment for the simple action, he just takes away the simple action as a threat by calmly diffusing it early on. He can move onto crushing (and simple) parry ripostes later on once he's shattered their confidence in their compound attack.

That's my (lengthy) £0.02

[epeeslasher]

By drawing the direct action a couple of times and getting out of the way easily he's made it abundantly clear that he's not going to be hit with such a simple action...

And on the flip side Baldini (and Tagliarol, come to think of it) are going to great lengths to disguise their lunge. It always starts like an advance and if the distance becomes closer the front leg shoots out and becomes a lunge instead of finishing the advance.

Just my speculation but I think Baldini was able to defeat all of Sedov's attacks by stepping out of distance because Sedov wasn't 'masking' his lunges.

[Foil.Leicester]

And on the flip side Baldini (and Tagliarol, come to think of it) are going to great lengths to disguise their lunge. It always starts like an advance and if the distance becomes closer the front leg shoots out and becomes a lunge instead of finishing the advance.

Just my speculation but I think Baldini was able to defeat all of Sedov's attacks by stepping out of distance because Sedov wasn't 'masking' his lunges.

Yes, in that respect Baldini uses a repeating footwork pattern similar to that of Vezzali and several other women (also the German men's foilist Schlechtweg).

Another thing though that I've always thought about Baldini's counter-attack is that, particularly in the early stages, he does them at the "wrong" time. What I mean by that is that when he dives in to smother the attack its not at what I'd call a conventional time to do so. Later on in the match he will then mix up this timing of when he launches, this makes doing a compound attack against Baldini EXCEPTIONALLY difficult. He has proved early on in the bout that he can nail the attacker in prep/counter at usually about three points during their attack, this gives them so much to think about that often Baldini is then able to set up very very simple parry ripostes or attacks.

This is a great example of how one attack used at a variety of different timings can absolutely take control of a match.

This match with Sedov is one of two fantastic examples of that, the other is that match against Huang. If you let Baldini get inside your head and start playing with your game, you're done for.

[DavidX]

http://www.youtube.com/user/trueflip...11/FbZ3yN8-pQ8

from 1:48 to 2:00

Look - I'm not going to do like I normally do and just talk a lot of shizzle about the other weapons because I only like foil - all I'm saying is that incredibly intense prolonged dynamic interaction is almost exclusive to foil. I know the other weapons have their appeal and that's cool and all - but for twelve seconds those two heros are engaged in the business of the gods.

Much props for the upload my baby.

[lguillemin]

I really like the conversation going on about Baldini's style... I've been watching him closely (even though I'm epee) and my thoughts are more or less confirmed thanks to you all!

I will upload the women's foil... I think I even have some footage of Zagunis

[Cookeit]

Upload the team men's foil please.

[DavidX]

Has anyone else noticed that since Zhu's legs are so long and his defensive stance so wide that when he retreats he looks like some weird species of bug moving extremely quickly? Check it out - it's got a definite insectile look to it.

Baldini does seem to disguise the lunge and since he's already so close to the ground it doesn't have some of the same tells a taller fencer would have.

[Foil.Leicester]

Has anyone else noticed that since Zhu's legs are so long and his defensive stance so wide that when he retreats he looks like some weird species of bug moving extremely quickly? Check it out - it's got a definite insectile look to it.

Baldini does seem to disguise the lunge and since he's already so close to the ground it doesn't have some of the same tells a taller fencer would have.

Another thing that Baldini does (and this could become tricky to do if the whole "attack ends with the foot" thing comes to pass) is that he actually hits very late on the lunge. He usually starts with his tip waaaaay up in the air and the start of the action is as if he's going to flick to back (something he is very good at). However then at the last moment, like after his foot has landed, he snaps his hand down into the low line, sometimes by bringing the arm back.

Also watch how he holds his body when he's doing this, he disguises the low-line attack by holding his torso up high and not crouching as low as he normally does. This further sells the idea that he's going for the flick to shoulder or high line attack, then when he changes line he drops his shoulder to allow him to follow his hand into the low-line easier.

[DavidX]

foil.leicester's post is the kind of thing that makes freshman like me better fencers - i've looked at this and am going to implement it - as experienced fencers usually work out my timing after I've marched them 3 or 4 times and i've been wondering what i can do that isn't so freaking telling.

leicester - may you bathe in a froth of victory and hooter-juice.

[erooMynohtnA]

Has anyone listened to the commentator? It sounds like Derek Cotton. Whoever it is, I don't know where he's getting his information, but it's somewhere not concerned with being correct.

In about two minutes of speaking he said Zhu was 6th in Beijing, Peter Joppich was the bronze medalist and that Peter was 2nd and 4th in the past world championships.

[edew]

It is Derek Cotton, but he could be reading off a script for such materials. It's not as though Derek is going to remember how every fencer finished in Beijing or other WCs.

[erooMynohtnA]

Whatever, I knew off the top of my head that Zhu was 4th at the Olympics while Peter missed the semis and that Peter was two time world champ leading up to the games, and I am not nearly so entrenched in fencing, nor was I commentating on a bout containing them. I guess my memory is just crazy-mad-good for being able to remember the three men's foilists who medaled in the Olympic games.

[lguillemin]

Derek did a GREAT JOB!!!! I can't stress this enough. For first time watchers and beginners he is a god send

[DavidX]

i guess when youre talking about commentating on fencing "great job" is extremely freaking relative

ive seen a few eurosport vids where there were two commentators who from time to time contributed in an interesting way to the bout but for the most part fencing commentating is sorely lacking.

I don't know what it is but it seems almost impossible to be engaging when commentating a bout.

He talked about poor Baldini's drug bust for like 15 minutes.