Fencing without Private Instruction

[missem86]

I've recently just moved to a new city for four months, and I've found a fencing club to practice with, but it's just open fencing. Can anyone recommend what kind of things I can do in order to keep improving even though I don't have an instructor or coach?

I already practice at home (mostly footwork) 15 min. a day and I keep a journal on my progress.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

[keropie]

Well, finding a coach would be best, but if you're only going to be there for four months and you can't find one so far, I can understand not finding one for that span. Maybe.

Things you can do:

Practice yourself.

Watch others, especially during bouting (since I presume that's most of what happens without instruction). Find the people you like the way they fence, and try to learn from them.

Set yourself goals, and try to attain them in bouting (goals here are more like restrictive bouting... for example: score 80% of your touches on defense, set up counter time, use only simple offense, etc.)

Now, if I misunderstood your post and this is a permanent move, I'd try to find a coach/instruction. If you tell us where you are, we might be able to help.

[bjacobs]

Just because everyone else is bouting doesn't mean you have to. Find someone willing to do drills with you.

[telkanuru]

One of the best things you can do is do drills on a target dummy. Build your own if you have to. As a national coach once said, you can give yourself a better 20 min lesson with a dummy than you can get fom 95% of the coaches in the country.

[vetsabersacto]

I would suggest you video tape yourself incessantly. i also have had no coaching and lessons since i've started about 7 yrs ago so being able to see your mistakes and improvement is very enlightening and important if you want to improve. i've then focused on working on 1 to 2 things and then keep track of these areas by watching my tapes. taping yourself at tournaments is most beneficial. i carry a small tripod and setup my camera at the end of the strip so you can get a side view of you, your opponent and the ref (so you can see how the pt is called and who got the point) and then turn it on for every bout. it works well but it does take some practice in setting up the camera and figuring out what the best angle is. its helped me tremendously but its still not as good as a real coach !

[Hauptman]

I've recently just moved to a new city for four months, and I've found a fencing club to practice with, but it's just open fencing. Can anyone recommend what kind of things I can do in order to keep improving even though I don't have an instructor or coach?

I already practice at home (mostly footwork) 15 min. a day and I keep a journal on my progress.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

You could also try taking video of your fencing then you would be able to self-assess somewhat more objectively.

[bob46]

One of the best things you can do is do drills on a target dummy. Build your own if you have to. As a national coach once said, you can give yourself a better 20 min lesson with a dummy than you can get fom 95% of the coaches in the country.

Eh, I disagree about the percent, but yes, a large percent of the coaching here in the USA needs...large amounts of improvement.

[crquack]

Much good advice has been given so far. I will re-iterate most of it.

Being in the same situation I have done the following:

1) Find a *good* coach, if not in the same city then in another one, travel as far as is necesary and pay through the nose for private lessons even if only once every 3-4 months. Take notes so you can practice what you have been taught.

2) Dump a crappy coach even if he is on your doorstep. There is nothing worse than finding out you wasted two years learning useless crap.

3) Read fencing books.

4) Watch fencing videos. Sadly, unlike other martial arts, there are only a few DVDs available, but some nice clips on the net, some from the fnet contributors.

5) Make your own fencing videos.

6) Make not one but several training dummies, each helping with different aspects of the game.

7) When bouting worry less about the score but concentrate on the manner of execution.

8) Fight as many different people as you can.

[Wetmelon]

Take the opportunity to get into great shape. It will also drastically help your fencing. I've managed to lose 20+ lbs fencing already and have noticed a huge difference in my ability to move on piste.

[telkanuru]

Eh, I disagree about the percent, but yes, a large percent of the coaching here in the USA needs...large amounts of improvement.

yes, it's probably closer to 99%.

[bob46]

yes, it's probably closer to 99%.

I don't know the state of anything other than men's foil, but there are about 5 clubs dominating it, possibly less. So yes, something from 95-99%. I think the only thing you're going to have to pay attention to when practicing on a target is avoiding parries...

...With a bad coach, you have to plug your ears halfway. That's the tradeoff.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

yes, it's probably closer to 99%.

No, the problem isn't in the quality of coaching, the problem is in the quality of the fencer self coaching.

YOU certainly can give yourself a better lesson than close to 99% of coaches. But I can probably only give myself a better lesson than maybe 80% of coaches (at the moment, I may not even be that high). Other individuals may be at different levels.....

The trick is that almost any individual can be trained by a very good coach to work on their own. So you make sure you get a few lessons from someone you know to be of very high quality when you can, specifically focused on working on your own later.....

[big daddy]

A few thoughts:

!. Keep up with the footwork, those 15 min a day works wonders. I do 30 min a day. What it's done is give me the ablity at 56 to run younger fencers into the ground. They may beat me but they pay a physical price for it.

2. Look at fencing videos. You learn to fence by watching other fencers or/and receiving instruction. You cannot learn to fence from reading a book. One can get ideas but one must see them in action. If you don't think so try to learn ballroom dancing from a book.

3. Use bouts to practice actions. Do not worry about winning , worry about pratice.

$. Fence in as many tourments as possible.

5. Learn to use and control distance.

[BlindEagle]

A few thoughts:

!. Keep up with the footwork, those 15 min a day works wonders. I do 30 min a day. What it's done is give me the ablity at 56 to run younger fencers into the ground. They may beat me but they pay a physical price for it.

This is probably the most important thing I have found in my experiences without a coach. On top of just footwork, stay in shape and do stamina building exercises. This, in my opinion, is the most important thing to do regardless of having a coach or not.

Other than that, work on point control. And I don't mean just lunging at the same spot over and over. Work on having control from all sorts of distances and positions, from Advance-lunge to 2 inches, straight ahead to behind the back, the more situations the better. A good piece of advice i got once was, "you want to be able to move your shoulders completely separately from your feet." Meaning no matter how you're moving or facing you should be able to launch an attack or parry one.

[Fechter1]

1. Keep up with the footwork, those 15 min a day works wonders. I do 30 min a day. What it's done is give me the ablity at 56 to run younger fencers into the ground. They may beat me but they pay a physical price for it.

Excellent advice. However, some control is necessary. If possible, practice footwork with mirrors, which will allow you to 'clean up' your technique. Video cameras can be of enormous help here as well, which ties in directly to point #2.

2. Look at fencing videos. You learn to fence by watching other fencers or/and receiving instruction. You cannot learn to fence from reading a book. One can get ideas but one must see them in action. If you don't think so try to learn ballroom dancing from a book.

Anecdote: I used to watch World cup and Olympic bout recordings from time to time, sometimes for analysis, sometimes for entertainment. After a while, I noticed that my fencing, especially my footwork and mobility improved afterwards (for a short while).

3. Use bouts to practice actions. Do not worry about winning , worry about pratice.

If you really want to work on specific moves, grab a fellow fencer, ask them to stand in as your drilling partner. That way you can finetune a specific technique before trying it in a bout setting (which BTW can help avoid a lot of technical bad habits).

4. Fence in as many tourments as possible.

Tournaments are a great way to increase your strip-time, but you rarely improve your technique. Yes, you may be able to get new ideas/pick up on new tactical choices, but you will most likely need to use club time to practice those before you are able to employ them effectively.

5. Learn to use and control distance.

This will come only from experience, both during open bouting and tournaments. There are a number of drills/games that can give you the initial ideas/impetus, but actual bouting situations are almost required for improvement in this area.

$.02

[RITFencing]

I apologize if it's been mentioned, but videotape yourself while bouting and doing footwork or drills. You will be surprised with what you see. Also, see about attending some camps or clinics elsewhere for a short period of intensive training and ask the coaches there what they would suggest you work on.

[dramamine]

Well, if you`re significantly better than the people you`re fencing, give yourself limitations (no parries, only certain types of actions count, you have to score all 15 hits with the same action, all 15 hits with different actions, if you get hit with a 1 light counter attack or remise it counts for 5 points, etc etc) and do a lot of footwork.

If you`re not, then just ask the other fencers what you need to work on, offer to videotape them if they videotape you, find people who are motivated and do partner drills with them, videotape said drills, watch all video, etc.

You can also offer to run group footwork, drills, etc. If you get everyone else to improve it will improve your fencing significantly.

If you aren`t a fairly strong fencer already, then it`s best you just find a coach. They might not be on your doorstep but you could still make semi-regular trips somewhere to get some feedback and have things to work on for a few weeks.

[Durando]

I love this thread and it makes me miss America. (If OP is somehow not American then I miss the brave place where the OP is from).

No coach? No problem.
Rock. On.

Also makes me think of Tom Waits.

"You won't believe what Mr. Stitches saw."

[I_luv_saber]

One of the best things you can do is do drills on a target dummy. Build your own if you have to. As a national coach once said, you can give yourself a better 20 min lesson with a dummy than you can get fom 95% of the coaches in the country.

QFT. At least for saber... I have very little experience in the other weapons. You can really get those cuts nice and crisp and get a decent feel of distance even. I'd imagine you get similar technical benefits for other weapons...

[big daddy]

I should have said watch training videos. There are a few on YouTube, the FIE site (french site has some excellent videos) also there are some you can buy. All I ever learned from watching competition videos is how hott women fencers are.