Slovakia vs Bombs 0-1

[Nusy]

I thought I would pop into the whole airport safety debate with a rather shocking bit of a news story.

In a nutshell, Slovakian border officers randomly placed explosives and bomb parts into the checked luggage of 7 passengers, who have not been previously informed of any such things. They hid 8 pieces of hazardous materials, one bag got two vials of explosives, so they can keep their bomb-sniffing dogs alert and in training. The dog only marked one of the explosives, and the officer removing it from the bag didn't care to check any further, hence the other vial, with 90g of research development explosives (roughly 3oz.) remained in the side pocket of the suitcase of an unwitting electrician returning to Dublin, where he worked, from his Slovakian hometown where he spent his Christmas holidays.

So, a few days later, Irish police is knocking on his door, seizes the explosives and shoves the electrician in jail for smuggling explosives into Ireland. It took the Slovakian authorities 3 days to mention anything to the Irish, even though they noticed the missing vial right after the test was conducted.

Full story on Associated Press


I'm curious about your opinions...

[OROD]

Officer... I dont know how that weed got there, I swear it's not mine... the Slovakians must have put it there.

.

[Gav]

Laughter aside. For that Slovakian dude this turned pretty serious pretty quickly. Don't forget the LOOOOOOOOONG history of terrorism in Ireland.

[seven6ty]

"Diss suxxxxx"

[Nusy]

Gav - I know. But SERIOUSLY. My main concern is the fact that all passengers whose bags got infiltrated were completely unwitting. The test happened without their knowledge or consent. Also, the explosives weren't monitored super closely. It may just be a bit of a paranoid theory, but say, someone hears about this test, and that the explosives are not under seven locks to say the least. And - whoa! - the explosive that got slipped in slips out and into the hands of the terror association of your choice. And from then, all they need is a bit of an ignition for a little bit of fireworks. Not even going into privacy rights.


Anyways, I assume the Irish terror history was not unknown to the Slovakian authorities either... Hence, why did they even try their chances with a Dublin flight, and after feathers have hit the fan, why did they sit still scratching their nuts instead of stepping up and telling the Irish 'look buddy, we messed up a wee bit, it's our fault'.

I'm by no means blaming the Irish for reacting exactly as expected to a possible threat... I'm just totally flabbergasted by the dumbness of Slovakians.


$.02

[Purple Fencer]

Gav - I know. But SERIOUSLY. My main concern is the fact that all passengers whose bags got infiltrated were completely unwitting. The test happened without their knowledge or consent. Also, the explosives weren't monitored super closely. It may just be a bit of a paranoid theory, but say, someone hears about this test, and that the explosives are not under seven locks to say the least. And - whoa! - the explosive that got slipped in slips out and into the hands of the terror association of your choice. And from then, all they need is a bit of an ignition for a little bit of fireworks. Not even going into privacy rights.


Anyways, I assume the Irish terror history was not unknown to the Slovakian authorities either... Hence, why did they even try their chances with a Dublin flight, and after feathers have hit the fan, why did they sit still scratching their nuts instead of stepping up and telling the Irish 'look buddy, we messed up a wee bit, it's our fault'.

I'm by no means blaming the Irish for reacting exactly as expected to a possible threat... I'm just totally flabbergasted by the dumbness of Slovakians.


$.02

On the other hand, the Irish police appear to have done THEIR job appropriately....treating it as a real event.

[Gav]

Gav - I know. But SERIOUSLY. My main concern is the fact that all passengers whose bags got infiltrated were completely unwitting. The test happened without their knowledge or consent. Also, the explosives weren't monitored super closely. It may just be a bit of a paranoid theory, but say, someone hears about this test, and that the explosives are not under seven locks to say the least. And - whoa! - the explosive that got slipped in slips out and into the hands of the terror association of your choice. And from then, all they need is a bit of an ignition for a little bit of fireworks. Not even going into privacy rights.

The explosive in question didn't have a detonator attached so it was harmless.

Anyways, I assume the Irish terror history was not unknown to the Slovakian authorities either... Hence, why did they even try their chances with a Dublin flight, and after feathers have hit the fan, why did they sit still scratching their nuts instead of stepping up and telling the Irish 'look buddy, we messed up a wee bit, it's our fault'.

I'm by no means blaming the Irish for reacting exactly as expected to a possible threat... I'm just totally flabbergasted by the dumbness of Slovakians.


$.02

The other questions are valid and, I think, it's extremely likely that the security people involved will use their jobs. In a couple of accounts, once they found out what had happened they told the pilot who elected to fly the plane anyway. No one seems to know why someone (anyone involved) didn't tell the Irish authorities. That's the real question.

[erik_blank]

I'm by no means blaming the Irish for reacting exactly as expected to a possible threat... I'm just totally flabbergasted by the dumbness of Slovakians.


$.02

From my flawed memory of the story on NPR the other day, the Slovakian authorities DID attempt to contact the Dublin authorities immediately, but bungled it by only managing to alert the baggage handling people at the Dublin airport. They never followed up on the ?fax? that was sent, and the Dublin baggage handling group never read the message until it was too late.

[erik_blank]

From the NPR web site:

A border police officer who works as a dog handler, placed two samples of an explosive into one bag," says Ludmila Stanova, spokeswoman for the Slovakian Interior Ministry. "The sniffer dog found one sample, after which the police officer and the dog were called off to a different matter, and the officer had forgotten to take out the second sample."

When he realized the oversight, the police officer contacted the pilot of the plane which was still on the tarmac. The pilot decided the explosives — which the Slovakians say were not dangerous because they were not attached to other bomb components — did not pose a safety risk, and the plane took off for Dublin as planned.

The Slovakians say they contacted Dublin airport, but it has emerged they sent a telex to the Dublin baggage handlers, and the message went astray. Dublin airport officials say they did not hear about the issue until Tuesday morning when the Slovakians called them.
Dublin airport officials then called in police, who surrounded the apartment of the man whose luggage contained the planted explosives. Police evacuated his neighbors and arrested him. The man eventually was released without charge when the facts were finally sorted out.

Since then the Slovakian Interior minister has apologized for the incident. The ministry issued a strongly worded statement criticizing the Irish police for unnecessarily arresting the man. It also criticized the Irish media's coverage of the incident.

The statement did, however, say that Slovakia will search for new ways to train its sniffer dogs.

[Nusy]

The explosive in question didn't have a detonator attached so it was harmless.

I'm no expert at this, so this is a real question: How long would it take, and how difficult would it be for a potential terrorist to attach one?

The Slovakians say they contacted Dublin airport, but it has emerged they sent a telex to the Dublin baggage handlers, and the message went astray. Dublin airport officials say they did not hear about the issue until Tuesday morning when the Slovakians called them.
Dublin airport officials then called in police, who surrounded the apartment of the man whose luggage contained the planted explosives. Police evacuated his neighbors and arrested him. The man eventually was released without charge when the facts were finally sorted out.

My problems with this:
1) The pilot decided to fly. I wonder how he was told about the explosives on board. Was it like 'There are explosives on board, we advise you do not fly', or more like 'there are explosives, choose if you fly or not', or, and whay I find likely after having lived in the area for almost all my life 'there's some of this explosives on board, but no worries, we're the only ones knowing it, not even the owner knows it's on, and anyways, it's harmless, sure you wanna delay flights and p!ss all passengers off?'

2) Contacted the Dublin Airport. AND JUST THAT. They should've (IMHO) contacted the Irish police or border guard FIRST, and then drop a word to the airport. Why? Because if Border Guard knows about it, they WILL contact the airport to be able to do their jobs. Dropping a line to the airport from the Slovakians should've merely been a courtesy after doing what they should.
It's a little like what I was told on my drivers' ed first aid class: when you see a major accident, call ambulance first - they know what to do with the most important part (the patients), and they WILL notify the police and, if needed for the rescue, the fire department.

3) Not following up an important message. Drat. If I send something important in a message that may go astray, I make it damn sure I check it arrived, in one way or another. Had they followed up on the message, a load less harm would've been done still.

Since then the Slovakian Interior minister has apologized for the incident. The ministry issued a strongly worded statement criticizing the Irish police for unnecessarily arresting the man. It also criticized the Irish media's coverage of the incident.

Of course. Criticize the Irish for doing their jobs.
If you see someone pointing a gun at you, you will kick him in the nuts. Unless of course you were told in time it's a toy gun and it's just a practice simulation. If no one tells you it was one, no one should criticize you for trying to protect your own life.

The statement did, however, say that Slovakia will search for new ways to train its sniffer dogs.

I damn hope so.

[Gav]

I'm no expert at this, so this is a real question: How long would it take, and how difficult would it be for a potential terrorist to attach one?

I am no expert either but I happen to know that RDX is a fairly common explosive that's extremely stable at room temperature. More here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDX

As I understand it you need to stick a detonator, prime it then detonate it. Won't take long but you would certainly need to know the explosive was there.

[I_luv_saber]

I think the idea was not so much "could this have gone off accidentally", but "what if someone found it in their luggage and decided not to let it go to waste". Either by using it themselves or selling it. AIUI.

[Gav]

I think the idea was not so much "could this have gone off accidentally", but "what if someone found it in their luggage and decided not to let it go to waste". Either by using it themselves or selling it. AIUI.

That presupposes quite a lot which I don't think is credible.

[erik_blank]

*Snip* (lots of quotes attributed to Erik_Blank....)

Errr... I just wated to point out that I did not write the above article and should not be attributed to me... While I would have been glad to have been the author, it really was nothing but a quote from the NPR broadcast...

[I_luv_saber]

That presupposes quite a lot which I don't think is credible.

*shrugs* Just sayin'.

Although it is certainly fair to note while this may not have been a likely scenario, scattering explosives (or pieces of explosives rather) among random people is not a good idea for safety (and a multitude of other) reasons.

Meanwhile, terrorists now use Slovakia as a hub...

[Gav]

*shrugs* Just sayin'.

Although it is certainly fair to note while this may not have been a likely scenario, scattering explosives (or pieces of explosives rather) among random people is not a good idea for safety (and a multitude of other) reasons.

Meanwhile, terrorists now use Slovakia as a hub...

I don't disagree at all. I just think that there's no need to over react.

[Fiat Slug]

I can't but help wonder if the Slovakians decided to put the explosives in passengers' bags because it's cheaper than actually sending an undercover passenger on a flight. I'm not saying what they did was right or justified, just wondering if they were being cheap.

.

[I_luv_saber]

I don't disagree at all. I just think that there's no need to over react.

I agree. I think it's more funny than anything else. Well... except for the poor bastard it happened to...

[I_luv_saber]

I can't but help wonder if the Slovakians decided to put the explosives in passengers' bags because it's cheaper than actually sending an undercover passenger on a flight. I'm not saying what they did was right or justified, just wondering if they were being cheap.

.

Interesting thought... but that in addition to the bungle of handling the aftermath? Cheapness and stupidity together maybe?

Funny thing about it also... some of the lower level staff who were involved were fired, but AFAIK none of the high level staff who were involved in the planning were. Par for the course, but kinda funny nonetheless.

[Gav]

I don't know. I can see the logic in the security guys heads, "Make this a 'live' scenarios and test to the extreme." The simple fact is that they made a mistake - we all do after all - however there were repercussions for the unfortunate passenger and there will be for the security operatives.