Health Care Transparency and CSPAN

[PretAllez]

All I'm asking for is a list of facts that you think that I made up. I need to start somewhere to be able to understand?

ok, here we go ...

Canadians ration healthcare by statistics and luck, whereas the free market is the only fair way to ration it. If you work hard, you get healthcare because you can afford it.

For every one story like yours, assuming they are true, and not just made up to make a point, there are 10 stories of people dying while waiting to see a doctor. It is like waiting at the DMV except you ACTUALLY die, instead of just feeling like it.

(emphasis mine)

and that's just this thread

I could go on, but I have to go make supper for the family, not for the troll, sock-puppet or whatever...

[chase]

ok, here we go ...



(emphasis mine)

and that's just this thread

I could go on, but I have to go make supper for the family, not for the troll, sock-puppet or whatever...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33785

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/HL702.cfm

http://redclaycitizen.typepad.com/re...-of-canad.html

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14043

http://www.fraseramerica.org/newsand...news/6217.aspx

[jessicasimpson]

I said it was ONE of the best in the world, and the best in the midwest and west, with the possible exception of Stanford.

This one sentence contains 3 made up facts, if you count midwest and west separately. Unless you meant UT is in the top 99% of schools, then there are only two.

[downunder]

Chase this article is quite interesting: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33785

The second half is devoted to the main problem - namely that uninsured people can be charged tens of thousands of dollars for relatively simple procedures. The Obama administration appears to be trying to solve this problem by introducing new rules for insurance companies and nationalising the health risk. I haven't heard any proposed solution from the other side. Have you any more articles on this?

I would have thought a national insurance scheme would be seen favourably as the more people you have on the scheme then the more you can reduce payments and diversify risk?

A reply without name calling would be appreciated

[chase]

This one sentence contains 3 made up facts, if you count midwest and west separately. Unless you meant UT is in the top 99% of schools, then there are only two.

East: Harvard
Midwest: UT
West: Stanford

My point was that it is a top institution.

[jessicasimpson]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33785

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/HL702.cfm

http://redclaycitizen.typepad.com/re...-of-canad.html

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14043

http://www.fraseramerica.org/newsand...news/6217.aspx

So, chase does not make up facts, he repeats cherry picked factiods and opinions he gets from right wing blogs.

[chase]

Chase this article is quite interesting: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33785

The second half is devoted to the main problem - namely that uninsured people can be charged tens of thousands of dollars for relatively simple procedures. The Obama administration appears to be trying to solve this problem by introducing new rules for insurance companies and nationalising the health risk. I haven't heard any proposed solution from the other side. Have you any more articles on this?

I would have thought a national insurance scheme would be seen favourably as the more people you have on the scheme then the more you can reduce payments and diversify risk?

A reply without name calling would be appreciated

They cannot fix that problem without fixing tort reform. Malpractice lawsuits are the biggest cause of price inflation. Conservatives have been fighting for this for a long time.

[downunder]

They cannot fix that problem without fixing tort reform. Malpractice lawsuits are the biggest cause of price inflation. Conservatives have been fighting for this for a long time.

I agree this is a problem. The UK has a similar problem with 'libel tourism' where the costs needed to defend yourself have raised huge freedom of speech issues.

This link here (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=az9qxQZNmf0o) claims malpractice suits are around 5-10% of costs, so whilst sizable, do not tell the whole story. There is market failure occuring and the blog you posted earlier shows that the average american is probably paying way too much for his or her healthcare.

There are many ways to solve this, improving information to consumers and increasing competition in the insurance industry are two obvious ones off the top of my head. But I would think that without an incentive or threat, insurance companies and medical companies are going to continue to make huge profits at the expense of the average american.

What do you think?

[jeff]

actually, chase is wrong there, too. Malpractice is only part of the problem, costing an estimated 2% of health care. chase's own state, Texas, instituted a number of reforms, including a cap on claims, and it didn't make much difference.

EDIT: Here's an article to read on why health care costs rise: http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...disease&st=cse

[MyrddinsPrecint]

They cannot fix that problem without fixing tort reform. Malpractice lawsuits are the biggest cause of price inflation. Conservatives have been fighting for this for a long time.

It's one piece of a puzzle. It's a piece of a puzzle that absolutely needs to be fixed. But let's say a family make $60K a year, and the life saving cancer treatment costs $200K before tort reform and $180K after tort reform. Tort reform has helped this family, but the family is still facing a very tough financial decision.....

And it's not as if "tort reform" doesn't have other consequences. Sometimes doctors do their absolute very best, warn you of all the risks beforehand, and things go wrong anyway. Sometimes doctors don't warn you of the risks and do procedures drunk. It's a careful balancing act between allowing doctors to care for patients without going bankrupt from insurance costs, while still insuring that patients are able to sue doctors who are wildly grossly and abhorrently negligent. If you leave surgical supplies in me during an operation, I'm simply not paying you to get them back out.

[Hauptman]

All I'm asking for is a list of facts that you think that I made up. I need to start somewhere to be able to understand?

Ok, Chase, I suggested that you do a bit of introspection and just think about what I have to say, and you appear to have given it no thought at all; that's a problem right there.

I have no intention of providing you with a list of your mistakes because it serves no purpose; no one can do your work for you.

But let's start small; how about you start by acknowledging even one error in fact, and one error in judgement. No one will think less of you for admitting a mistake; people will actually respect you more for it.

Here is a link filled with unnecessary insults and errors:
defenseless against missiles

[chase]

Ok, Chase, I suggested that you do a bit of introspection and just think about what I have to say, and you appear to have given it no thought at all; that's a problem right there.

I have no intention of providing you with a list of your mistakes because it serves no purpose; no one can do your work for you.

But let's start small; how about you start by acknowledging even one error in fact, and one error in judgement. No one will think less of you for admitting a mistake; people will actually respect you more for it.

Here is a link filled with unnecessary insults and errors:
defenseless against missiles

Ok I admit that I wasn't being very nice, but other then that I didn't lie.

[Bayou Bum]

It's one piece of a puzzle. It's a piece of a puzzle that absolutely needs to be fixed. But let's say a family make $60K a year, and the life saving cancer treatment costs $200K before tort reform and $180K after tort reform. Tort reform has helped this family, but the family is still facing a very tough financial decision.....

So, if a family makes $60k a year and owns a home worth $200k, and the house burns down and they have no insurance, should the taxpayers pay to rebuild their house for them?

Anyone making $60k a year should purchase health insurance and live within their means! I made it a priority to purchase health insurance when I made half of that, often forgoing items like telephone, etc.

Again, look at the Republican's plan for true health care reform!

[downunder]

Do you guys want to actually address my points or pick and choose at the ones you can argue against?

[Hauptman]

Ok I admit that I wasn't being very nice, but other then that I didn't lie.

Chase... really? That bit about FDR being a coward, and practically handing Europe over to the Nazis... you are completely wrong about that. It was the Republicans that were hard-core isolationists; it is well-documented. FDR tried for years to get us involved before Pearl Harbor. You did write that didn't you? Did you even read my reply?

This is a perfect example of what I'm trying to get across to you; that your biases are altering your view of reality. I sincerely hope that one day you'll see it.

[jessicasimpson]

So, if a family makes $60k a year and owns a home worth $200k, and the house burns down and they have no insurance, should the taxpayers pay to rebuild their house for them?

Anyone making $60k a year should purchase health insurance and live within their means! I made it a priority to purchase health insurance when I made half of that, often forgoing items like telephone, etc.

Again, look at the Republican's plan for true health care reform!

I understand your point and totally see where you are comming from with your analogy, but Homeowners issurance does not exclude people's homes for pre-existing conditions. Also, I am assuming that you paid for your health issurance more than a few years ago. Someone that makes $30,000 a year lives at over double the poverty level. when I checked last year, $5,000 deductable insurance cost about $750 a month. So $750, plus you need to save up the deductible in case you get sick. That would be another $416 per month to save $5000 per year. So $1166 per month while you take home less that $2000 after taxes.
What about the people that live right above the poverty line? Health insurance would eat up 80%to 100% of their income. Talk about living the American Dream!
This has always been my concern with Universal Healthcare. It is to big of a jump to go from $16,000 a year to $45,000 a year, and do it without health insurance. Universal coverage would allow thousands to escape welfare every year.

[keith]

I understand your point and totally see where you are comming from with your analogy, but Homeowners issurance does not exclude people's homes for pre-existing conditions.

Unless those pre-existing conditions are hurricanes.

In that case private insurers skip, and everyone else gets to pick up the tab.

[davesaint]

East: Harvard
Midwest: UT
West: Stanford

My point was that it is a top institution.

I assume that you are stating that Rockytop is the best school in the Midwest? If so, you need to get off the drugs. First, UT is south of the Mason-Dixon line. This excludes it from being part of the Midwest. I assume you are not talking about the University of Texas. If you tell them they are in the Midwest, they might shoot you. Plus, you have academic powerhouses in the Midwest such as Northwestern University, University of Chicago, and Notre Dame. Not to mention University of Michigan, and University of Illinois.

As far as credentials go, I don't think that there is a University in the World that has more Nobel Prizes than University of Chicago. Not to mention that they are the fathers of nuclear fission.


Dave

[keith]

Can't we just agree that UT is in the running to be one of the top schools in Texas?

[jessicasimpson]

Can't we just agree that UT is in the running to be one of the top schools in Texas?

Best school in Austin. That's as far as I go