Re: "Babe Term" VS Reality

[Mo]

Babes and Fencing
Women of any age do not start fencing so they can be perceived as "babes." Judging them on that basis is off base and the kind of thing women have been fighting since time began. They are not the weaker less worthy sex and not there to look pretty and demure for the male fencers.
The qualities that make a good male fencer also make a good female fencer. Having a quick mind, good physical skills, coordination and dedication to the sport are what make a good fencer. Fencing also develops certain muscles like thigh and quads and they get larger. Bike racers have the same muscle group development as do speed skaters. Judging a female fencer on the size of her butt is very condescending and destructive.
Athletes sweat. Fencers sweat more than most due to the requirements of the clothing. Women fencers are ATHLETES, they are not pieces of meat on display for male fencers to ogle.
To even go there, to the "Female fencers are not babes and why are they all so ugly" (except Zelda according to the posts) well, can you guys see the problem?
Feminism is not dead, women are not here for men (or males that think they are men) to judge and rate them.
It seems you all want the sport of fencing to be respected, try a little respect for each other.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Mo
Babes and Fencing
Women of any age do not start fencing so they can be perceived as "babes." Judging them on that basis is off base and the kind of thing women have been fighting since time began. They are not the weaker less worthy sex and not there to look pretty and demure for the male fencers.
The qualities that make a good male fencer also make a good female fencer. Having a quick mind, good physical skills, coordination and dedication to the sport are what make a good fencer. Fencing also develops certain muscles like thigh and quads and they get larger. Bike racers have the same muscle group development as do speed skaters. Judging a female fencer on the size of her butt is very condescending and destructive.
Athletes sweat. Fencers sweat more than most due to the requirements of the clothing. Women fencers are ATHLETES, they are not pieces of meat on display for male fencers to ogle.
To even go there, to the "Female fencers are not babes and why are they all so ugly" (except Zelda according to the posts) well, can you guys see the problem?
Feminism is not dead, women are not here for men (or males that think they are men) to judge and rate them.
It seems you all want the sport of fencing to be respected, try a little respect for each other.

Since when does appreciating a woman's good looks preclude you from appreciating her skill as a fencer, or her intelligence? The acceptability of the term "babe" notwithstanding, it sounds like you are saying its one or the other. Isn't that the entire point of feminism?? It is not EITHER attractive OR skilled, it is frequently both. to assume that an appreciation of good looks precludes an appreciation of skill is INCREDIBLY offensive to the intelligence of men. Do you really think that men are that unintelligent? do you really think all of our minds are capable of applying only one attribute to people? If not, then what is so bad about an appreciation of beauty??

-m

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Mo
Babes and Fencing
Women of any age do not start fencing so they can be perceived as "babes." Judging them on that basis is off base and the kind of thing women have been fighting since time began. They are not the weaker less worthy sex and not there to look pretty and demure for the male fencers.
The qualities that make a good male fencer also make a good female fencer. Having a quick mind, good physical skills, coordination and dedication to the sport are what make a good fencer. Fencing also develops certain muscles like thigh and quads and they get larger. Bike racers have the same muscle group development as do speed skaters. Judging a female fencer on the size of her butt is very condescending and destructive.
Athletes sweat. Fencers sweat more than most due to the requirements of the clothing. Women fencers are ATHLETES, they are not pieces of meat on display for male fencers to ogle.
To even go there, to the "Female fencers are not babes and why are they all so ugly" (except Zelda according to the posts) well, can you guys see the problem?
Feminism is not dead, women are not here for men (or males that think they are men) to judge and rate them.
It seems you all want the sport of fencing to be respected, try a little respect for each other.

Disclaimer: I am by no means a sexist, and am all for equality between men and women in all things.


However, I mean all things. So why can't women be drafted? That is also sexist, yet I rarely hear a female complain about it.

[Peach]

Front cover of today's New York Times ("Soldiers from the Army's V Corps in Germany yesterday before taking off for joint exercises in the Persian Gulf") suggests that's going to be a moot point. The caption-writers didn't even do what they used to do in the good old days and qualify the term as "female" soldiers. Though they undoubtedly ran the picture because the three soldiers in the foreground are female, marketing being what it is.

If they really need soldiers these days, my bet is women are going to get drafted too.

So why can't women be drafted?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by Mo

It seems you all want the sport of fencing to be respected, try a little respect for each other.

Ahhhh...if you look back and find my comments about Sandra Kuhn, you'll see that I DID praise her for more than her incredible looks. I'll say it again...she's intelligent, has a sweet personality, friendly, a damn good fencer (when her ankle permits...she blew out a tendon a year or so ago and recently re-injured it), helpful (loaned me her sabre lame at sectionals a couple of years back because mine had died) AND has Playboy looks.

I have also seen any number of women out there who are tough competitors and who also happen to turn heads when the mask comes off. WHy can't I appreciate a good looking woman? I don't act on it, I simply appreciate someone who's easy on the eyes after looking at guys like me all day!

Besides...we ALL look the same with the mask goes on...I can ignore the curves when I'm fencing.

"I'm looking at your target...REALLY!"

[KShan5[PrFC]]

I also agree women should be drafted. And I will open another discussion altogether through explaining why.

Women want the right to be able to kill inocent children. They call it a choice, to take the life of a defensless child. Women feel they should be able to kill. Well if a women is allowed to kill someone who is defenceless, why can they not kill a person with a weapon in their hand? It seems highly unfair. If women feel they have the right to murder, then they should have the right not murder, and kill in all situations, they should not just get to choose when and where, and only if it sutes them and if they will not have the chance of beeing killed.

They refers to the women population that has been voting for the past ten years, not all women, just the majority that make their voice heard politically.

[Moonitic]

Jinkies!

Hey, if you want to call me a babe, that's your business...so long as you don't take it any further than that & try to touch me with anything other than a foil during a fencing bout. More power to ya'. I like being a woman (not a doormat, mind you). And I like men to be men. If they happen to be cute men, all the better!

And no, I'm NOT posting my pic...lol...I'm a troll!

[edew]

Originally posted by KShan5[PrFC]
I also agree women should be drafted. And I will open another discussion altogether through explaining why.

Women want the right to be able to kill inocent children. They call it a choice, to take the life of a defensless child. Women feel they should be able to kill. Well if a women is allowed to kill someone who is defenceless, why can they not kill a person with a weapon in their hand? It seems highly unfair. If women feel they have the right to murder, then they should have the right not murder, and kill in all situations, they should not just get to choose when and where, and only if it sutes them and if they will not have the chance of beeing killed.

They refers to the women population that has been voting for the past ten years, not all women, just the majority that make their voice heard politically.

Actually, I'd prefer to see neither men nor women drafted. I think a war's popularity will be better gauged by the people willing to fight in it. While there was a draft for WWII, it would have gotten as many soldiers as if there weren't. And few would have gone to Vietnam if there were no drafts as well.

As for your anti-abortion rhetoric, please refrain from qualifying the fetus as "innocent" or "defenseless". I do not disagree with the premise that, given our current medical skills, aborting a fetus even at 3 months or earlier is killing a most-likely viable entity, that is, murder. So what. Humans and other animals have conducted abortions for ages. Survival of the fittest is a cruel yardstick in nature. Outlawing something that is a part of nature makes one wonder about the sensibility of the lawmakers. (Other weird, contrary-to-nature laws include most laws related to sexual behaviors.)

[KShan5[PrFC]]

As for your anti-abortion rhetoric, please refrain from qualifying the fetus as "innocent" or "defenseless". I do not disagree with the premise that, given our current medical skills, aborting a fetus even at 3 months or earlier is killing a most-likely viable entity, that is, murder. So what. Humans and other animals have conducted abortions for ages. Survival of the fittest is a cruel yardstick in nature. Outlawing something that is a part of nature makes one wonder about the sensibility of the lawmakers. (Other weird, contrary-to-nature laws include most laws related to sexual behaviors.)

First, how should I qualify the fetus as?????? It cannot defend itself, therefore it is defenseless. It has done no wong, therefore it is innocent. If my defintions of these words are wrong, please correct me, but by and large I fell that I am correct while qualifying the fetus as defenseless and innocent.

Second, survival of the fittest is a natural phenomenon, you cannot reporoduce it by killing fetuses at will.

Third, hunmans and animals have been conducting it for ages?????? What are you talking about? The technology for abortion has not been around for "ages", and also, animals? For God's sake, animals? You'd have us believe elephants go at each other with nicely curved metal spoons and scoop out little elephants from inside the matriarch because of "family planning", or "heard planning" or whatever elephants would call it.

Again I will restate, only humans perform abortion. The natural tendancy for a lifeform is to preserve itself. Abortion is conterproductive. It is the antithesis of self-preservation. Hell, the reason why we have sex in the first place is to make more of ourselves so we'll keep going, right? So what is with this abortion anyway? Well humans do it because they're too smart for the good of their own species. The other animals couldn't figure it out if you asked them to. Its giving too much cognative ability to the lower lifeforms. Self destruction is a wholly-human behavior.

I pray that God will redeem your soul and save you from eternal hellfire. Or, if you're atheist, i hope that you'll realize how flawed your argument is.

[HilandDoug]

I'll second Purple's comment from the 5th post above:

"I have also seen any number of women out there who are tough competitors and who also happen to turn heads when the mask comes off. WHy can't I appreciate a good looking woman? I don't act on it, I simply appreciate someone who's easy on the eyes after looking at guys like me all day!"

[Craig]

I'm going to close this and the other "babes" thread. They are starting to spiral out of control.

Cheers,
Craig