Problem with a parent's spectating

[Fiat Slug]

After reading the more recent posts on this thread, I find myself siding with Fencing Mom. Most parents are generalists -- we know a little about a lot of things. Coaches, on the other hand, are specialists. We agree that coaches know more about the sport than we do. However, we do not limit our involvements to clothing, feeding, hydration and emotional support. Parents occasionally can provide valid and correct feedback about fencing techniques, even if the parent in question is not a fencer. Parent's feedback should be supplemental, not contradictory to that from the coach. Coaches should welcome this support from the parents since it helps the student.

Are some parents sometimes overbearring? Absolutely? Are parents sometimes wrong? Sure. Should all parents be forbidden from giving advice about fencing techniques? I think not.

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[PretAllez]

Originally Posted by dramamine

1) .... Sometimes it's nice to know that you're doing the right things!

*blushes furiously*
Thank you, dramamine

Maybe I should have been MUCH more specific regarding my original question, i.e.:

Do fencers pick up on the emotional/mental state of bystanders? Even subconsciously? Even if the bystander remains silent?
From what I gather, the answer is probably: depends on the fencer (and possibly, depends on the bystander)

I ask this question because in equestrian competition, I have found that the emotional state of bystanders (sometimes even strangers) can really affect both horse and rider (which explains why I always volunteered to work in the Secretary's booth during my daughter's riding competitions; I only watched her practice, not compete).

I realize that the comparison may seem weird, but when you think about it, both sports require intense concentration, split-second decision-making, very subtle fine motor skills, and IMO a superior ability to harness (no pun intended) and redirect emotion.
Perhaps some modern pentathletes could comment?

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Fiat Slug

After reading the more recent posts on this thread, I find myself siding with Fencing Mom.

I didn't see this thread being about right or wrong but about PretAllez deciding about what worked best for her & her son.

What's right for Fencing Mom or any parent of a fencer differs greatly. There's a lot of variables. There's no one-size fits all solution.

[twohands]

I think that most of the times a parent (non fencer) gives any fencing advise to their children during a bout, it is wrong. As a coach, I work on a few (one or two) items a time, especially with young fencers who are still learning, and I am interested in my student transferring what he/she has learned to a match situation. Many times, the parent´s advise are not only wrong, but in conflict with my advise. When a parent acts this way, he/she is usually very nervous, and the child gets nervous as well. Parents are supposed to attend the competition as spectators, to give emotional support, cheering up, hydrating and feeding their child only after the bouts, not in the middle on them.
Some of my students´parents get so nervous that they cannot control themselves anymore. I have asked them not to go with their children to competitions. Not all of them took my request in consideration. I don´t give any advise to their children anymore.

[d'marion]

Well, I've been competing for a little over a year now, and my mom doesn't watch me fence. She leaves me alone to do my thing and fence, considering how the other fencing parents act. They either tell them how to fence without having any knowledge of the sport itself or get overly emotional about them. My mom will watch me sometimes, but she doesn't tell me how to fence because she knows I can do it without taking advice from her, cause even she acknowledges the fact that she doesn't know how to fence. The only people who do watch me and give advice are fencers from my club.

[lewis]

Originally Posted by PretAllez

Of course, you are absolutely right. This makes a lot of sense to me... Thanks for all the advice.

I have decided to quietly watch from afar, stay positive, make sure he is fed and watered, and enjoy the experience ... because they do grow up SO fast...

What your kid needs changes with time also. When my younger kid first started he was VERY proud of being the only kid in the 10s who could get dressed completely on his own and hook up by himself. He carried his own spare stuff and his own water and did not take kindly to anything except the occasional very polite clapping. He wanted to be left alone at tournaments. Now that he is older he likes having me keep track of his bag - moving it around so stuff isn't stolen, making sure there is food and water available, to tell him when stuff is posted so he can just warmup or rest or zone out (whatever he needs) and to get his equipment checked so he can get ready to fence instead of stand in line. He hates it if I tape the bouts so I don't.

And enjoy the travel time and prep time with your child. And if you go to the tournament even if you watch from afar - don't be on the phone or reading the paper when your kid is actually on the strip..........

The question we always ask is who did you lose to? Don't know if that is helpful to your kid but when there are 159 fencers in an event 158 of them lost to somebody and this opens up the door for talk if they want.

[PretAllez]

I try not to phrase questions in terms of winning and losing. I have learned to let him "digest" his elimination in a DE on his own, not saying a word, until I notice the signs that he has "recovered". Then I go ask if he wants something to eat (because he is always starving anyway).
Only later that day/evening will I ask "what did you learn today?"
He usually takes notes after his wins/losses anyways, but if he forgets, I sometimes remind him. I will also remind him if he leaves his gear lying around (always!) and will sometimes help him move his stuff from one piste to the next (but only if he asks me to, otherwise he complains that he can do it himself (!)

Like most parenting, it's a work in progress...

[Palisadeur]

Originally Posted by PretAllez

Like most parenting, it's a work in progress...

You said it.
On the other hand, I used to get nervous when my dad, a very polite and reserved spectator (no WOOHOO's or anything) was watching.
Then I had to learn realquick how to block out and focus when my 2yo son was present.
It was a minor tournament, 5 competitors, the boy was active but quiet, and everyone's friends and family were literally on a bench 2m behind the ref, so i don't feel too bad about it!
But it's never been an issue since that day...

Distractions from off-piste are nature of the tournament experience, and focusing on the bout at hand is just another thing to be learned I reckon.

Unless they're deliberately seductive YOOHOO's from your opponent's scantily clad sister. That's cheating.

[happyfencer]

Originally Posted by Bonehead

In my experience, it was always nice when I had someone interested in how well I did, but I couldn't stand it if I felt obligated to perform for them.

Personally, I had enough expectation on myself, that if there was someone I felt like I was letting down I would be bothered by it.

My parents went the other route and kept saying things like "Don't worry if you don't do win this one" even if it was a bout I was 110% sure that I would win. That was kind of annoying, but not devastating.

The most embarrassing parental experiences always involved them cheering at inappropriate times. Sometimes they would cheer when I'm beating up some kid who had never fenced before. "Attack touche, 13-2" "YEAH! NICE TOUCHE".. meanwhile the kids mother "Don't worry, you can get the next one".

And by far the worst, is during an important bout, hearing your parents cheer when your opponent scores a point on you. Just Awful. Now you're 1 more point down and you're parents are idiots. Great.

So I guess my advice is try to learn a little bit about the sport, so you can at least tell who is scoring. Don't get so involved that your son feels as though he "owes it too you" to perform, let him feel as though it's up to him whether he wins or loses and both are just fine outcomes to you.

And don't be his coach. Don't tell him he should be doing a particular action or training. And don't be the enforcer of the coach either; "Didn't the coach say you should be doing this?" doesn't help coming from a parent.

Finally the best thing that my parents ever did was make damn sure I was polite. They didn't care if I won or lost, but if I acted like a jackass, didn't shake hands, screamed (outside of a "eh-la" type thing), and didn't treat the people around me with the utmost respect, I would be hearing about it.

As a young fencer, it's definitely annoying and stressful when a parent reminds you about something your coach said. It's not that they're wrong, because most of the time they're actually right, but an 'I told you so' from a parent doesn't help eliminate pressure AT ALL.

[happyfencer]

Originally Posted by lewis

What your kid needs changes with time also. When my younger kid first started he was VERY proud of being the only kid in the 10s who could get dressed completely on his own and hook up by himself. He carried his own spare stuff and his own water and did not take kindly to anything except the occasional very polite clapping. He wanted to be left alone at tournaments. Now that he is older he likes having me keep track of his bag - moving it around so stuff isn't stolen, making sure there is food and water available, to tell him when stuff is posted so he can just warmup or rest or zone out (whatever he needs) and to get his equipment checked so he can get ready to fence instead of stand in line. He hates it if I tape the bouts so I don't.

And enjoy the travel time and prep time with your child. And if you go to the tournament even if you watch from afar - don't be on the phone or reading the paper when your kid is actually on the strip..........

The question we always ask is who did you lose to? Don't know if that is helpful to your kid but when there are 159 fencers in an event 158 of them lost to somebody and this opens up the door for talk if they want.

It sounds like you're really on top of this, listening and respecting his needs and realizing when they change. I think that fencing CAN be a bonding experience for child and parent.