North shore fencing tournament

[kellyjean]

We attended the 3rd in a series of fencing tournaments. They were all in NY, but the last was at North Shore Fencing. I feel the need to let them know how unprofessional I felt they ran the tournament.
Registration closed at 1:00, according to them. At 1:40 when the event still hadn't started I questioned why. I thought it started at 1:00, they corrected me and said registration ended at 1:00. Ok, time to compile the names and pools etc. At 1:45, 3 fencers came flying in, they didn't seemed concerned that they were too late. Which would've been the case at most other tournaments.
They turned out to be club members, they were waiting on them. Now fencing begins, 2:00. One of those same fencers has a weapon malfunction. Instead of getting his back up, the referee walks off and finds this young man a new weapon. Would they extend the same courtesy to other fencers? Isn't being prepared part of the deal, not to mention on time?
People travel from distances to attend these events, they can be difficult to find, this one was the worst. They actually say it's hard to find, but make no effort to post signs for those of us who have difficulty finding the location. They really need to do a better job, those of you looking for a club, if you're considering this one, I wouldn't!

[fencerchica]

Regarding locating the club, were the directions on the website inadequate? I'm wondering about this first because I'd like to know this for my own information in case I find myself going to an event there, and second because my own club is a little difficult to find too, but my understanding is that we aren't allowed to put up lots of signs in the property of the business park we're located in, so an effort was made to put good directions on the club website (as it seems that North Shore made a real attempt to do, but maybe it wasn't enough?).

[Fencergrl]

Some tournaments are ran a little more relaxed than others. These are usually small, club tournaments.

I can understand your frustration in having the event run late. This happens from time to time. Sometimes, it's just because other events have taken longer than expected, sometimes it's because they're waiting for some fencers to finish their earlier events and occasionally the organizers will wait for a carload of fencers get delayed for some reason (and called). So delays are not uncommon, but are an added nuisance.

As for the weapons being borrowed... it depends on the club and the age of the participants. There's a great youth tournament here that lets any participant borrow club gear, they also provide snacks and water for the kids. It's considered a really well ran tournament. So while the club mentioned may/ may not have extended the same courtesy to a guest, they might have. You don't know.

[SpiralGalaxy]

One of those same fencers has a weapon malfunction. Instead of getting his back up, the referee walks off and finds this young man a new weapon. Would they extend the same courtesy to other fencers?

I'm a pretty new ref down here in Texas. But generally speaking, when any competitors have equipment problems, I will do what I can to a) let them get replacements, b) get the equipment fixed, c) help them scrounge replacements.

A referee's goal is to get the fencing going as quickly as possible, and if that means helping the fencers round up equipment, then that's what I'll do. During/after which I'll of course give them the requisite # of penalty cards for having non-functioning equipment on the strip, of course.

I'd only consider blatant favoritism if the referee in question didn't give the penalty card.

[telkanuru]

It's only really bias if they specifically refused non-club fencers the same amenities, isn't it?

[Fiat Slug]

I have to side with the OP on this one. For starters, there's no excuse for allowing people to register 40 minutes past the closing time. Even if a previous competition (at the same venue) ran late, those fencers can still register on-time. If people cannot get to the venue on time, then they should be excluded from the competition. Having a 5-10 minute grace period is one thing; waiting 40 minutes is not reasonable.

As for the weapon, I also think this is inappropriate. Looking at the askFRED info for this competition, this appears to be a high-caliber competition. As such, I would expect them to at least enforce the 2 working weapons rule. I can understand if a small local competition wants to relax rules this doesn't appear to be a small local competition. If these things happened to me, I would definitely have a talk with the organizers and division/sectional people.

As for the directions, one tip I would offer is to look at the hosting club's website. While some clubs post minimal information on askFRED, they tend to have more detailed info on the club's website. In this case, there's pretty good direction on the club's website about how to get to the facility.

.

[Natureboy]

I have to side with the OP on this one.
.

+1.

This is part of the New York Epee Gran Prix Series. It is hosted by several NYC and NYC area clubs. It attracts a very high caliber of fencer with scores tallied over the series and some decent prizes awarded. It is not unusual to find the likes of Kelsey, Mattern, Thompson, Abend, Bratton and Rodney attending if they are in town.

Last year I had one of the North Shore coaches ref a DE for me and one of his students. He disallowed my epees because they had screwless tips. I was not aware Long Island was in Europe. He was also the bout committee, so no appeal on geographical grounds allowed :-(. It was Yellow-red-red and the score was 0-2 before we had even started. I had to leave the strip and borrow a weapon. So that seems to answer the OP's original question of whether the courtesy of finding or fixing a weapon would be extended to another fencer.

To add insult to injury, the ref coached his fencer while the bout was being fenced. I have no problem with a coach directing a bout and then talking to his fencer during the break. Manpower is often at a premium and I know many that can wear both hats with honor. However, this seemed beyond the pale. The solution to my complaint on this issue, was to direct the bout from behind me from my end of the strip so I couldn't see the director. I could see the fencer's eyes as he backed out of distance and looked behind me for guidance. I found this to be premium timing for the fleche! :-)

In fairness to North Shore, the directions on their web-site lead me right to the door without aid from a GPS. I deleted the link when I got home, though, and did not bother to attend this year. I was, in fact, surprised to see them hosting again this year. It is a very very crowded club with little to no run-off and was one of the poorer tournament experiences I had over my 30 years of fencing.

It is unlikely I will fence there again, but YMMV!

[telkanuru]

I was, in fact, surprised to see them hosting again this year. It is a very very crowded club with little to no run-off

Everything else seems fairly ****, but have you ever been to the NYAC

[fdad]

Not directly related to this event but...
Under some circumstances, fencers don't mind waiting a little while for latecomers. If you go to an event hoping to fence high level competition, and one or more top fencers are delayed, you might be willing to wait. Also, if you are short a fencer that would potentially improve the rating of the event, you might be willing to wait.

[DHCJr]

+1.

Last year I had one of the North Shore coaches ref a DE for me and one of his students. He disallowed my epees because they had screwless tips. I was not aware Long Island was in Europe. He was also the bout committee, so no appeal on geographical grounds allowed :-(. It was Yellow-red-red and the score was 0-2 before we had even started. I had to leave the strip and borrow a weapon. So that seems to answer the OP's original question of whether the courtesy of finding or fixing a weapon would be extended to another fencer.

You made a mistake also. You never asked to see the rule. M.5.5.a was not adopted by the USFA. By what you said this is a USFA tournament, so USFA rules applied. If they did not have a rulebook, you should have had one.

You can use screwless tips in USFA tournaments.

[kellyjean]

I was impressed with the feed back. I didn't think to go to the clubs site for directions. But in the industrial park where this is located one of the neighboring businesses had lots of directional arrows to their business.
I think for tournament days, when people are traveling in, those little temporary signs are great. Take them down days end.

We've been to many tournaments, none ever started this late. This was the only event this particular sunday afternoon. So I really felt there was no excuse!

[prototoast]

We've been to many tournaments, none ever started this late.

You've been very, very lucky.

[telkanuru]

And never been to a national event.

[Inquartata]

Perhaps he might have said "This late waiting for someone to arrive".

Although I have been to an NAC where the equipment was later than that arriving...

When I go to a tournament, I'm usually there for the day anyway, so waiting an hour for a larger, stronger event would probably draw a "meh" from me. Plus more time to warm up! :

[telkanuru]

Well, you are pretty old, but I tend to go for a full day of *fencing*, not sitting on my butt. It's very hard to figure out when you should start warming up when you don't know when you'll start.

[Inquartata]

No, it's not. You just start fencing, and you stop when they call pools.

Pretty simple, really. Even an epeeist should be able to understand the concept!

[telkanuru]

No, it's not. You just start fencing, and you stop when they call pools.

Pretty simple, really. Even an epeeist should be able to understand the concept!

Which may work well for the energy output requirement of a veteran's tournament, but not so well for those of us who are interested in winning things that matter.

[Fencergrl]

Did I just hear a young pup claim to have less energy than us vets?

[telkanuru]

Did I just hear a young pup claim to have less energy than us vets?

Only if you've finally lost your hearing and are listening to the voices inside your head. I said you could afford to output more energy in warmups because the actual competition demands less of you.

[Inquartata]

Did I just hear a young pup claim to have less energy than us vets?

I believe you did.

Plus, if he thought that I was talking about Veteran tournaments it's his hearing he should be having checked.