question on classical form from beginner

[wyhaja]

Am new to fencing, school I told me to use the epee to start-being the first time I had even picked a foil or epee I did not know the difference-
Am reading Nick Evangelista's Art and Scince of Fencing and his opinion of comtemporary approach to fencing
I am attracted to the proper technique and historical perspective aspects of fencing and wish to be a purist-
Do many comtemporary fencers adhere to classical style? insist on learning with the foil, etc.? I haven't really asked anyone and so don't have any idea-
Also, what do I do if the only school in town doesn't support and encourage this approach?

[latenight]

I don't adhere to having to start with foil first. In fact I'm probably what you would call an anti-purist. In fact, many "purists" don't care which weapon you start with.

However, if you want to do it this way, Just tell them you want to learn foil (tell them you love the idea of right of way ;-) ). They don't need to know that you plan on switching later.


Just my opinion, others may vary.

[damianip]

There is nothing inherently wrong with the classical approach to fencing, especially for beginners. If taught properly, it will instill sound principals which shouldn't have to be "untaught" later if one chooses to be a sport fencer.

If you wish to compete in sport fencing, you may have to modify your approach a bit a the higher levels because of the level of competitiveness and athleticism that manifests itself very profound, and good form and technique alone is not enough.

Decide what you goals are for fencing (exercise, competition, perfect form?) and try to factor that into how you make your choice.

I'm a sport fencer, but I believe that foil is still a good starting point, to instill sound fundamentals into your game.

With the right coach, however, one could start with any weapon and be successful.

I'm not sure what you mean by "purist". Mr. Evangelista is more of a curmudgeon than a purist. While he has some good points in his books, his extreme distaste for sport fencing indicates, to me at least, that he's an evolutionary dead end in fencing.

The sport (or art if you wish) can evolve and change. Depending on your goals within fencing you can accept that or not. Just remember that Mr. Evangelista is not the last word (or only) in fencing.


Paolo

[JEC]

Ditto damianip's comments. Evangelista is an antithesis of sports fencing.

[wyhaja]

Thanks-shedding light now
I'm not sure if I'm doing the chat board reply right- so

It seems though that a master like Ralph Faulkner would be the model for most fencers-
Would he not be able to compete in sport fencing?

[damianip]

Originally posted by wyhaja
Thanks-shedding light now
I'm not sure if I'm doing the chat board reply right- so

It seems though that a master like Ralph Faulkner would be the model for most fencers-
Would he not be able to compete in sport fencing?

He did compete in his era. However, Ralph Faulkner's principals and style would not give him an advantage at the highest levels of sport fencing today.

In the 60s and 70s, the Eastern Bloc, along with what was then West Germany, radically changed fencing by rethinking all the old principals and taking the approach that the fencer is an athlete first and an artist second.

There is always this issue of "could the masters of old beaten the masters of today". My point is that the masters of old, were they alive today, would probably be fencing like the masters of today.

Sports, in general, very much reflect the era in which they are practiced.

Can you imagine Mike Tyson boxing in the gentlemen's sport of fisticuffs at the turn of the last century?

Faulkner may have been good in his time, but even compared to his French, Hungarian and Italian comtemporaries, he was not the best; neither as a competitor nor as a coach.

Paolo

[wyhaja]

Also, and this may sound silly but
isn't the fencer's responsibilty to carry forward the classical tradition so that it isn't lost?

[achilleus]

Originally posted by wyhaja
Also, and this may sound silly but
isn't the fencer's responsibilty to carry forward the classical tradition so that it isn't lost?

That's why I always Old-School shoes when I fence, just like basketball players wear Old-School b-ball shoes.

[epeefencer74]

Originally posted by wyhaja
Also, and this may sound silly but
isn't the fencer's responsibilty to carry forward the classical tradition so that it isn't lost?

Yes it is our responsibility to do so, however in doing so we must not neglect the sporting aspect of it. As damianip has mentioned, athleticism is primary to technique. Having said that, a fencer with good technique will always do better against another fencer with similar athletic ability but without good technique. I was taught and believe that fencing is a martial art first and a sport second. The principlesof learning it as a martial art, I believe, will translate very well to the sporting world. As with every other martial art physical conditioning is a must. I also believe that when the old masters taught the art of fencing they did not neglect physical conditioning either. You need to be quite fit if you are going to be any good with the sword.

[Sildar]

wyhaja-

Classical fencing means different things to different people. See the FAQ for this site, which discusses the difference a bit.

Some Classical fencers strive to learn a style of fencing which would be appropriate to late 19th century dueling weapons, and have no interest in modern style competitions. There are a few schools which are still dedicated to this approach, but they are rare.

Some people, like Evangelista, also call themselves Classical fencers, but they wish to change competitive fencing to make it more like it was 50 years ago, with more emphasis on form and tradition, but they still participate (or train competitors) for the modern sport style of fencing. A number of people on this board dislike Evangelista, so don't be surprised if you get some rather critical responses.

The best way to train and practice depends upon what your goal is; do you wish to be a competitive fencer with a more classical style, or are you only interested in the history, artistry, and dueling aspects? In either case though, the best route is to find an instructor who teaches the kind of fencing you wish to practice, and study with them.