2000 Saber blades

[Daylight]

First off, let me just say that I am primarily a foilist so my understanding of sabre is rudimentary to say the least. *smile* It just can be a lot of fun to fence!

At a recent event I was fencing sabre (I had broken all my foil wires the week before and decided that I wanted to fence SOMETHING so entered). I own one sabre with the requisite 2000 blade but had to purchase a second blade as my other weapon had an older blade in it.

The individual selling the blades handed me a sabre with 1999 marked on the side. I politely said that I was unsure about buying the blade because I already had a 1999 blade and wanted something that I knew would be competition legal. I was told that the rule changes were made to require stiffer and heavier blades. The 1999 WAS a stiff blade and therefore DID meet the legal competition requirements.

It was a stiffer blade but I am not sure how anyone would check the legality of a sabre blade...especially at a local event other than to look at the stamp. So I refused to purchase the blade, asking for one that was marked 2000. Was I right in being stubborn or do I owe this man an apology for my stupidity?

Thanks in advance!

[Purple Fencer]

Well...the rule change went in to effect before I started selling equipment, but my understanding at the time was the blades HAD to have "S2000" stamped on them; they could NOT be 1999 blades. I'd say you were correct in not purchasing them. Was the vendor one of the well-known biggies or a small independent one like me?

Dave, Donald, Tim...right or wrong?

[oiuyt]

In 2000 the armorers at NACs were checking non-S2000 marked blades, and, if they passed, marking them (engraving something on them?) as legal. It's less of an issue recently as people tend to have marked current blades, but I suppose that you could still get one tested. Doing so locally could be problematical and convincing a ref that your blade which clearly says 1999 on it is legal could VERY easily be hard to do.

Whether or not that specific blade would pass the tests, it would be hard for you as the purchaser to determine with reliability and, even if it did pass the S2000 tests would stil result in many additional difficulties for you later on. I certainly wouldn't have purchased it.

You made the right decision even IF that blade happened to be an older model that still passed the current requirements.

-B :)

[neevel]

A 1999 sabre blade that is at the stiffest end of the old flexibility range would still be legal. The "S2000" mark is not mandated (or even mentioned) in the rulebook-- it's just a way for the manufacturers to easily identify blades that were made to be in compliance with the new flex limits. As long as a blade within those limits, it's legit. The confirmation materials for NACs do say "S2000" blades, but what they really mean is "blades in compliance with current flexibility limits".

That said, oiuyt's correct that for local competition where you won't have someone who can test the blade, along with organizers & referees who aren't aware that there's no blanket ban on pre-2000 blades and can't be convinced otherwise, it's probably more trouble than it's worth.

-Dave

[DHCJr]

Dave is right. Just to give some history.

It is one of those, chicken and the eggs. The rule first gave only flexibility requirements. Several manufacturers from the former USSR made the blades and put on the date of manufacture. Then the FIE sent out the requirement for the S2000. Several tests were done at various competitions between the 1999 and the S2000 from other companies. The average result was over 90% of the 1999 passed the flexibility test, while only 80% of those marked S2000 passed. The worse was France Lame, which had less than 60% pass rate. At the International level, it is the flexibility that matters, not the marks. The S2000 requirement was dropped and has only been kept by the manufacturers of their own accord. At the USFA, the last time I checked, if it is marked S2000, it is assumed to pass (I’m sure everyone knows about the statement about assuming anything), while all others are checked. As far as local, you would have to check. In Orange Coast, there is no requirement.

If the vendor can show you that it passes, not just that it is stiffer, then I personally would not worry about the mark. Also check out the rules, especially M23 and Appendix A, which tells about how the marks must be made (Foil and Epee only), what the mark must look like (again Foil and Epee only). No place in the rulebook does it say it must have S2000. So if an armorer does say it is required, ask to see the rule.

[Inquartata]

To say nothing of the fact that they don't even look at your sabres at most competitions, and I haven't had a referee look at one since the first year the new blades were required.

[Daylight]

*smile* Just wanted to post my thanks for the validation. I am the quite content owner of a sabre blade marked 2000.