Epee advice

[johngjr]

hey im just starting fencing and im 5foot 3 male 15 years old
im looking a epee i like it alot
my second favorite is foil
i know epee is mostly for tall people but is there a chance that ill be good at epee. my team has A LOT of foil so epee ill fence more

John

[D'Art]

hey im just starting fencing and im 5foot 3 male 15 years old
im looking a epee i like it alot
my second favorite is foil
i know epee is mostly for tall people but is there a chance that ill be good at epee. my team has A LOT of foil so epee ill fence more

John

Short answer: Yes

Snarky answer: Have you had any sort of brain surgery in your life to cause you to like epee?

Long answer: Yup, but you'll need to work harder on your footwork, point control and timing than most others, cos the averagely tall epeeist can outreach the majority of the target area (though by no means all of it )
There are a few ways of doing this, but, as a lanky foilist who doesn't coach much, unless bribed with beer, I'm not in a position to offer any sound advice

[kapunga]

It's easily possible. Modern epee has become much more friendly to those who aren't as tall. Example:
http://baystatefencers.shutterfly.com/218
The woman on the left is from my club. The Polish woman on the right is WAY taller. My clubmate won 5-0. (This is a World Cup) If it can happen at that level, you should have no worries.

[larkmaj]

To mostly agree with D'art (save the snark), and give the other side of kapunga's point. In the long run, height doesn't matter. However, at the beginner level, the tall fencer in epee often has an advantage. Especially if he has learned a few cheap tricks that work very well at the lower level.

So my advice is to fence epee, and work at it so the tall fencers don't get any cheap shots. Don't be discouraged! Short people have some advantages too, you are much closer to their feet.

[TBean]

It is also possible that at 15 you might not be 5'3" for the rest of your life - but I don't know how tall your parents are, or at what point in his teens that your Dad put on height. If he grew late, then that is the pattern you are more likely to follow as well.

That aside, if you like epee fence epee. As you progress you will need to identify what your areas of strength are, ad how do you make a taller fencer play into that strength. For the moment concentrate on your footwork, as an epee fencer who is shorter you will need that. Good luck and enjoy.

[piste off]

TBean is correct on both points.

FYI - both the current World and U.S. National epee champions are aboout 5'8", and guys shorter than that have won Nationals.

R-

[lguillemin]

I'd like to point out that this year, the World Champion for Epee (Anton Avdeev) is around 5'7" / 5'8"

Blade work will be your best friend as you will almost always have to move their blade before you attack. On the defensive side of things, having a very well timed fleche can work as a great counter-attack.

Start with the basics, take risks and learn!

[CvilleFencer]

Being tall helps at low to mid levels, but it all starts to even out at the Div 1/1A level. Fence what you love, realize that you will have to train harder in the beginning but understand that it will make you a better fencer in the long run. Epee is the weapon of truth and justice, the choice of warrior poets and persons of distinction. Welcome to the club.

[parrythis]

Snarky answer: Have you had any sort of brain surgery in your life to cause you to like epee?

If so, I would like to point out that this corrective surgery is available to foilists everywhere!

If you like epee, fence epee. Remember these two things:

The whole body is target - including the weapon hand/wrist. With that in mind, your opponent's target area is no further away from you than yours is from them.

As a shorter epeeist, learn to get touches on your opponents' thighs and toes. You will frustrate them.

[lguillemin]

As a shorter epeeist, learn to get touches on your opponents' thighs and toes. You will frustrate them.

Personally I feel this isn't sound advice. Given you are shorter, you put yourself at risk every time you initiate a low line attack. You put your shoulder closer to their point. A direct attack to the foot would be suicide.

However, do not exclude low line hits on taller opponents. If your bladework is good, you can still 'get inside the arms of the octopus' and you will have a lot of success in-fighting or scoring touches. Septime beats to the leg are wonderful for close distance attacks.

Like everything else, fool around, take risks, prepare to lose hits in these situations, and gain valuable knowledge on your abilities and limits.

[D'Art]

If so, I would like to point out that this corrective surgery is available to foilists everywhere!

Which proves there's still hope for us foilists. What about you eepers and sabbies? :P

To disagree with Iggypop or whatever they're really called, footwork is always gonna be your friend (or rather, good footwork), no matter what size you are. Practice that first and foremost, and then you'll be able to experiment a lot with blade work, and even timing after that

[YellowSocks]

I'd like to point out that this year, the World Champion for Epee (Anton Avdeev) is around 5'7" / 5'8"

As a lefty of about 5'8", I was ecstatic when I learned someone of my build could become a world champion. Yes, it is frustrating when someone beats you that you KNOW is only using their height to win.

Really though, it is very possible to beat guys way taller than you with proper timing and distance management. Footwork -as just about everyone on this thread has said- is the key.

I can personally say that my main strategy against tall-lanky-absence of blade fencers is to bait them into attacking me and then countering to either their hand or parrying and riposte-fleching to their torso. Good luck!

[Rockstar44]

This is your brain.







This is your brain on epee.

[Mergs]

Being blessed by God with a rear-end that is closer to the ground than most others, I used to fence epee against someone that was 6'8", and until he learned to in-fight, used to do quite well. The trick was, as others have pointed out, footwork and timing to get inside my opponent's point, at which time his unnaturally, freakish, long arms became a liability for him.

I say go for it! It's nice to have some variety in life, and as a foilist coming into epee, you have the advantage of know what a parry riposte is!

[counterattack]

<useless inter-weapon barb> Sabre is a brawl, foil is a ballet, epee is fencing.

And don't let anyone tell you differently. </useless inter-weapon barb>

5'3" at 15 probably puts you in somewhere in the mid-5' level at full height. But even if 5'3" was your final height, epee can still be for you. We have a fencer at Stanford who is no taller than that (and actually may be an inch or two under that), is a woman (meaning strength isn't going to be her compensating factor), and gives us all we can handle. She picks her times, she has a quick and well hidden wrist touch, she never attacks the toe, and fleches explosively (and also without a tell).

So the list looks like this:

1) You really need your footwork to be good.
2) make sure your footwork is excellent.
3) develop your fleche (you have to have a deep attack)
4) polish your footwork
5) make sure you don't broadcast your actions, since taller fencers tend to lean toward counter attacking shorter fencers (if you broadcast your attack the taller fencer has the body when the shorter has only the arm). Often fencers who try and go hard also wind up, which more than defeats the purpose.

Remember, human reaction speed is limited. So if you can develop footwork that gets you into range suddenly and unexpectedly then you can minimize the actual height factor. A tell, on the other hand, is handing your opponent extra reaction time.

All this actually reads pretty well as a list for any epeeist, but if you are taller (or left handed) you can afford to be a worse fencer and still get enough slop to win some bouts.

Watch some youtube footage of the shorter world cup fencers to give you an idea. Someone else will have to give you a good list, since it isn't something I track carefully.

-ph

[delmet]

hey im just starting fencing and im 5foot 3 male 15 years old
im looking a epee i like it alot
my second favorite is foil
i know epee is mostly for tall people but is there a chance that ill be good at epee. my team has A LOT of foil so epee ill fence more

John

If you like epee, you should fence epee.

If 2 fencers are moving 10km/hr relative to each other, that would be about 4.4 inches per 40 milliseconds, which is the double touch interval. That is why good foot work and element of surprise are essential for a short epee fencer. If you do these long, but predictable attacks against the torso of a tall fencer, they will lock you out, especially if they have the time to start moving back a little, which cuts the relative speed. But there is no doubt a short fencer can be great, despite being a bit disadvantaged, which you can tell from looking at the top 25 list of the current rankings: 24 tall dudes, and one short guy who happens to be the world champion.

[lguillemin]

Some really good epeeists(not just short) to watch for you would be:

Anton Avdeev - He is small, and the world champion. Enough said. I have his two bouts from worlds, I'm just waiting on a reply from Universal Sports before I can upload them legally. He has a nice active blade and very good footwork with a quick fleche.

Radowslaw Zawrotniak - Average height at 181 cm, but he often lands direct attacks against taller french grip opponents. Watch his footwork and see how active it is. Also notice the difference between active footwork and impatient footwork. This in my opinion is the only reason why he isn't in the top 10 of the world.

Seung Hwa Jung - Crazy fast fleche, advance lunge and remise. This guy is pure speed.

Feng Wang - Discipline + speed. Very patient. Great footwork.


I would also consider watching the styles of the guys you will have difficulty beating:

Fabrice Jeannet - Most deceptive footwork in the game, with the deepest lunge.

Gauthier Grumier - If Fabrice doesn't have the best lunge, Gauthier does. He is great at drawing out opponents and picking them off as they come in. Being small is a huge disadvantage against this guy. Seriously, watch this bout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtRxId4XxE4
Guys like this will be your hardest match.


I hope this helps. Perhaps you don't enjoy watching fencing videos, but it is something I find incredibly useful. If you want more examples let me know.

[Fencergrl]

In Gauthier's last point, the step lunge was amazing in it's speed & distance. Thanks for posting the link.

[lguillemin]

There is a reason Gauthier is 1st in the world. He is really fluent with his movement. A lot of very subtle body feints.

[Durando]

Yikes, what a spanking. I probably fence more like Pizzo than Grumier, so I'd say that Pizzo seemed incapable of an action unless there was prepration au fer. Even after he comes up with a very successful parry-riposte, he doesn't make the slightest effort to set up those conditions again. I've seen so many fencers lose this way against opponents using a French grip. Grumier is just a master at provoking attack and scoring on the counter.