Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

BugabooX · 11-13-2002, 12:43 PM

I've seen bits of the upcoming James Bond film in which we're treated to Halle Barry (mmm!) AND fencing scenes -- genuine gear, in white, masks, etc.

Notes here as soon as someone sees it?

edew · 11-13-2002, 12:58 PM

White masks? That's so 1980s. White masks went out of favor for black masks in the mid-80s. I think post 1986, almost all masks sold were black. And it looked better too, because the white masks showed the rust stains from the breathing very easily. Looked bad.

I guess, however, that they chose the white mask for the fashion statement: everything in the movie is ice and snow and white.

remise · 11-13-2002, 01:07 PM

Halle Berry doesn't fence Bond. Madonna plays a fencing instructor in that role, which I've been told is just a cameo in the overall movie.

Catal · 11-13-2002, 01:16 PM

I've seen some of the footage, and it's nothing to get worked up about. The choreographer was the same for Lord of the Rings (Robert Anderson), but the scenes in the new Bond movie pale by comparison. The people in the fencing scenes, for as long as they've practiced, are terrible- then again, I don't think most of you will be watching for them for their skill. At least they're doing epee...

The masks I saw were black, I believe bugaboo was refering to the uniforms... Also, most of the equipment, if not all, is Leon Paul (go figure.)

remise · 11-13-2002, 01:22 PM

My son saw the footage and called it a "train wreck". What he got from it was, to the non-fencer, it would look good, like the Zorro flicks on TV. To the trained fencer, it would be a catastophe of motion, lunging, and blade-flopping.

edew · 11-13-2002, 01:31 PM

Hey, at least it wasn't PBT!

I wonder if they used those stamped epee blades from LP.

They probably got Leon Paul because some of the shooting was done in England?

And can someone drive a stake into Robert Anderson? That guy's responsible for the most "bad" swordfighting scenes in all of cinema. Go with William Hobbs, who choreographed some of the best sword fighting scenes ever:

* Three Musketeers
* Four Musketeers
* The Duellists
* Excalibur
* Cyrano de Bergerac (Depardieu version)
* Willow (ok....)
* Rob Roy (now, that was a fight scene)
* Shakespeare in Love
* Sunshine (the fencing scene, pretty realistic for its time)

Compare that with Bobo Anderson:
* Moonraker
* Star Wars (gak!)
* The Sheen/Sutherland/O'Donnell 3-Musketeers
* First Knight (OMG!)
* Parent Trap
* LotR (the sword-fighting scenes in FotR were the weakest part of the movie)

Oh well.

remise · 11-13-2002, 02:58 PM

You're right, unfortunately. As a foil fencer and a wanna-be sabre fencer, my son said of Star Wars Attack of the Clones,"The only thing they got right in the fencing scenes THIS time was the salute." Not a bad observation from a 13 year old.

BugabooX · 11-13-2002, 04:30 PM

Sheesh, guys. My shorthand wasn't *that* bad -- gear COMMA in white COMMA masks. Picking apart my message isn't important; it was just a prompt to pick apart the movie.

BugabooX · 11-13-2002, 04:47 PM

Hey, here's an idea. Dismiss it or whatever, but it's just a suggestion.

I'm a newspaper journalist of 15 years, and every so often I try to redirect some local attention to our sport. It's not easy -- if a game doesn't involve a ball or something to ride, might as well forget it. But next week I'm gonna try to get some of my fencing peers together at the theater to review the fencing scenes in 007 ... and only the fencing footage. Then I'll get comments from them about other movies that involved sword play vs. real fencing (it's fortuitous that our fencing master just happens to double as a stage combat teacher, too). Maybe even make a list of the top-10 sword fight movies of all time, as a sidebar. Should be a fun little feature by the time I'm done with it.

So there's the gist of it. Make contact with your local news media outlets' features departments and pitch the idea. Offer to round up other fencers so the writer (or TV reporter) doesn't have to. And if you don't get some sort of positive feedback within four hours, move to the next newspaper/station on the list and repeat. It may take a day or two for anyone to actually return your phone calls, but if you spread your attempts wide enough you're bound to catch one. (I would also suggest that you reach out to at least one other club in your area so that there aren't any hard feelings later, but that's just me.)

Go forth and do PR, sayeth me.

Daylight · 11-13-2002, 04:56 PM

I have to admit, the first notice we got of the fencing scenes were from Yahoo's blurb about Madonna's music video that goes "with" the movie, "Die Another Day." It is available online so you can actually see the epee bout. Most interesting...but at the very least, after ANY movie with swords our membership always increases!

"Fence like a Cat" · 11-13-2002, 07:22 PM

I remember that Bob Anderson did the moves for By the Sword.

Purple Fencer · 11-13-2002, 07:54 PM

Tim Weske - who owns SwordPlay (my salle) in Burbank, CA - just got back from doing stage combat work for a new movie (can't tell ya who it is). I've seen the guy's fights, and they're GOOD!
Picture 11 people fighting it out below decks of an old wooden sailing ship (mid-late 1800s)..they blocked out the scene and practiced it in the space of a parking stall! No one was EVER hurt, but it looked like they were trying to kill each other...all blows WERE aimed at actual target...not he "ants & airplanes" so favored by swordmasters of old.

Catal · 11-13-2002, 09:32 PM

Heh... That's funny. You're trying to keep it a secret, but your salle has already posted the movie to their website:

http://www.swordplaystudios.com/film/cinemagique.html

Move along folks, there's nothing to see here.

What the???

http://www.swordplaystudios.com/film/transvestites.html

Killer Transvestites on Dope?!

Dooooooode...

Purple Fencer · 11-13-2002, 11:48 PM

Hate to dissapoint ya, Catal, but those are OLD shots...2-3 years at least! They're still filming the new one. As far as I know, there are no released shots from the set...which is why I can't even name the Oscar-winning star (DOH!!)

edew · 11-14-2002, 01:36 AM

Denzel Washington in "Muska-teer in da Hood" coming to a theater near yous. Did Tim do a black face, or did Al Carter double for Denzel? Al's not too tall, so that might prove to be a bit of a problem.

Catal · 11-14-2002, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Purple Fencer
Hate to dissapoint ya, Catal, but those are OLD shots...2-3 years at least! They're still filming the new one.

Eh? Cinemagique is listed in the trade papers as being in production, those photos can't be 2 or 3 years old. Are you trying to pull my leg, Mr. Sneaky Pants?

Purple Fencer · 11-14-2002, 12:27 PM

Catal...hmmm...I may be wrong on the production stuff...stage combat's not my bag. It is NOT Cinemagique, however.

Eric -- Wrong Oscar winner, but thanks for playin'! Al Carter doubling Denzel?? Chris Rock, maybe....

HilandDoug · 11-14-2002, 07:11 PM

Let's not forget that even though it may be called "fencing" in the 007 movie, that's NOT what it really is. It's STAGE COMBAT, and it's very difficult for that to look like fencing.

And Denzel has nothing on our Aramis. Calvin Simmons played Aramis in our Musketeer show this past summer at the Michigan Renaissance Festival, and he convinced EVERYONE that Aramis was a black guy. (Let's not forget that Dumas' mother was African.) But then, all modesty aside, we made a great threesome of Musketeers. Rehash time: I played Athos. I've been fencing since 1980 and have been the instructor at Schoolcraft College since 1986. My friend Dale wrote the show, choreographed all the fights, and played Porthos. Dale is the fencing coach at Michigan State University, and has been sport fencing since 1983, and has experience in martial arts and kickboxing. Cal played Aramis, and has been a martial arts instructor for somewhere between 8-10 years. He knows many weapons, and since his favorite is psi, Dale wrote the show so Arimis mostly used 2 daggers rather than a rapier. (This was as punishment for Aramis killing one of Monsignore's friends in a duel.)

If you'd like to see pictures, check www.goldfrost.com and click on Renaissance Festivals, then click on 2002 Michigan Renaissance Festival.

And I just found out that we're doing the show next season as well, and we all get a raise. That's always nice!

BugabooX · 11-15-2002, 11:45 AM

:-) my favorite weapon is psi, too. sometimes i even use my metacreative faculties to forge a pair of sai out of pseudomatter.

practice tai chi or drink a glass of chai tea?

D'Artagnan1673 · 11-15-2002, 12:23 PM

Excellent observation, Edew. I too was thinking about all of the good movies that Hobbs has done. I especially love Rob Roy.

On the Leon Paul for the bond flop (I mean flick), Leon Paul also supplied the gear for the classic By the Sword.

Musketeer in the hood? I think I'll pass thank you very much.