Can any type of sword fighting be called fencing?

[Blade]

Now I'm not sure if this should be here or in the Water Cooler

but am I correct that you can deem any type of sword fighting as fencing?

I was watching a movie duel and made a comment to a friend of mine about the sloppy septime (sabre style) parry. I know its a little old fashion now but that's the type of parry it was nonetheless.

He made the comment, that ppl can't actually adopt a fencing style when fighting with broadswords - hence my question.

[Inquartata]

Yes. Only the type, or style, of fencing differs. You cannot very well do modern fencing with broadswords ( well, only very awkwardly and incompletely ), but then you could not do a broadsword cut with a foil, either ( well, only very ineffectually ). But both styles are still fencing...just as downhill and waterskiing are both still skiing.

[Sildar]

Remember that the term fencing came from the word defence, and was originally used to refer to pretty much any style of sword fighting you care to name, regardless of the weapon, from at least middle English onward. However, since few people in the last hundred years or so have done any swordfighting outside of the 3-weapon sport, some have erroneously assumed that fencing only refers to foil, epee and sabre. The London Masters of Defence were said to be "fencing" two or three hundred years before the 3 modern weapons even existed, as were Masters who taught rapier and dagger, backsword, sword and buckler and so on.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Excellent post, Sildar. Now that you mention that, I remember that the term fencing (or at least the general idea) has been around since the early Renaissance.

[MikeHarm]

Are all the styles worthy of being called fencing? I don't think the cavalry methods where they don't parry should be called fencing even though they were holding sabres.

[jBirch]

Hey Mike,

Any type of sword work involves the art of "de-fence". Cavalry sword work is simply a different style of swordplay that takes into account the pace at which a cavalry charge is conducted and the speed with which an opponent is passed. Basically, the best way to defend yourself on horseback is to totally eschew the parry and concentrate on hitting the other guy. The theory is that if you pay attention to the blade of your opponent, with a beat or a parry, then you'll miss your strike. Best case, they miss too. Worst case, they hit you first.

Read Patton's book on it for a better analysis.

Take it easy.

[MikeHarm]

Ya but they're just running at someone with something pointy pretty much in a line. Using a lance is almost the same thing, and I don't think thats fencing either any more than shooting an arrow out of a bow is. Its a fine thing of itself, but not fencing.

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

Ya but they're just running at someone with something pointy pretty much in a line. Using a lance is almost the same thing, and I don't think thats fencing either any more than shooting an arrow out of a bow is. Its a fine thing of itself, but not fencing.

I think you're discounting the complexity of it, which I'll admit I also don't understand either.
But to say they're just "running at each other in a line trying to hit" is an uninformed statement.
Apparantly patton has a book on the subject, so there must be some strategic complexity we don't understand about it.

[dunastor]

There's a website on the sabre fencing by Patton

http://www.pattonhq.com/saber.html

[gojujay]

If you look at the German word "fechten"- to fence it was used way back in the 13th century when rapier et. al. didn't exist. Fencing is any combat or simulated combat with any sword.

[vigia]

Originally Posted by dunastor

There's a website on the sabre fencing by Patton

http://www.pattonhq.com/saber.html

This is really interesting. Although I have to hope (or want to believe) that Patton knew that it was "forte" of the blade, not "forté", as is in the typed text. Let's assume it was a typo by the typest or automation error by the scanner.