Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

ReverseLunge · 11-11-2002, 11:34 PM

Are there any fencers who have have done Kendo? If so, what are your opinions on the 2 arts and which one do you prefer and why. I would also like to know if there is such a thing as right of way in Kendo. How is it scored when 2 Kendo fighters strike at the same time?

Blade · 11-12-2002, 12:25 AM

I think this has been covered before, do a search for kendo through the other threads.

ReverseLunge · 11-12-2002, 12:32 AM

Actually I did. Both of my questons weren't really covered. I'm especially curious about whether there is ROW or not.

epeemike81 · 11-12-2002, 01:11 AM

Are there any fencers who have have done basketball? If so, what are your opinions on the 2 sports and which one do you prefer and why.

-m

ReverseLunge · 11-12-2002, 01:16 AM

The 2 aren't that different. Stupid ***.

epeemike81 · 11-12-2002, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReverseLunge
The 2 aren't that different. Stupid ***.

hehe.....

Somebody needs to develop his sense of humor.

-m

attila · 11-12-2002, 02:25 AM

I'm not a kendo guy, but I play one on TV..........

Yeah , this question rears its ugly head now and again. So much so that I invented electric Kendo just to get a vibe on the whole "what if...?" If you get an electric kendo stick versus a guy with a sabre, the sabre guy wins. We have empirically (*sp?) proved the old progression in history from a two hand sword to a one hand pointy thingie simply because of "reach" and swift foot work. If you get a kendo guy versus an epee guy, again the epee guy wins on "reach" etc. Can't tell you about foil becuase I can't run an electric shinai ( basically a sabre ) and a foil (* tricky because of the whole always on 'till off electrical system) But, I would bet on the disabeling of the kendo guy from being flicked to the wrist and forearms.

Attila

Tim P. Miceli · 11-12-2002, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by attila
If you get an electric kendo stick versus a guy with a sabre, the sabre guy wins. We have empirically (*sp?) proved the old progression in history from a two hand sword to a one hand pointy thingie simply because of "reach" and swift foot work. If you get a kendo guy versus an epee guy, again the epee guy wins on "reach" etc. Can't tell you about foil becuase I can't run an electric shinai ( basically a sabre ) and a foil (* tricky because of the whole always on 'till off electrical system) But, I would bet on the disabeling of the kendo guy from being flicked to the wrist and forearms.
Attila

Hold on, One sword does not "beat" another sword its the person that beats the other person. Don't let one persons lack of skill dictate what is better than what, vary the skill levels in any Sword type A vs. Sword type B fight and the outcome can go either way.

Tim P. Miceli · 11-12-2002, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by attila
, I would bet on the disabeling of the kendo guy from being flicked to the wrist and forearms.

Attila

I am sorry but this is really compairing apples to oranges, a decent comparison was kind of there whith regards to saber & epee, but foils and flikcing? I know they are both sports but these are sprots born of a very martial heritage and considering where they come from they really do not mix if you start incorperating flicks.

D'Artagnan1673 · 11-12-2002, 10:07 AM

Lets take this discussion a little furthur back and say a katana vs. a rapier?

In that case, I say that Tim is right. A great deal of the outcome will depend upon the skill of the swordsman.

***Craig*** · 11-12-2002, 12:28 PM

I'll answer the question that was posed and not go off onto the other "best of" arguments...

Quote:

Are there any fencers who have have done Kendo? If so, what are your opinions on the 2 arts and which one do you prefer and why. I would also like to know if there is such a thing as right of way in Kendo. How is it scored when 2 Kendo fighters strike at the same time?

I took some time off of fencing and there was a place near my house that had kendo training, so I decided to give it a try.

There is a much greater respect for/observance of tradition and form in Kendo vs. western fencing. Our practices were broken down into physical conditioning, proper forms, some philosophy, and then the practical training (drills, and then "bouting"). I'll limit my comments to the physical and scoring/bouting aspects.

For Kendo, your footwork is slightly different as you move around within a square, not along a strip. This allows for more side-stepping, but the main actions are done with a step forward to add momentum to the hit.

In Kendo, to score a point you need to hit with the proper technique (both in terms of the target that you hit as well as the section of the shinai used to make the hit), as well as proper spirit (usually by shouting the target that you are striking.)

I was admonished by the master because I had proper technique, but no spirit. (Since fencers tend to look at the shout as "rude".)

The footwork is slightly different - You stay on the balls of your feet and proper footwork technique has the feet facing in the same direction, rather than at 45 - 90 degrees. (Also, no shoes.)

I found the bouting to be much more physically demanding than fencing because there is much more movement and no off-targets, etc. to stop the action and give you a break.

If you have a chance to try it out, I recommend it. Kendo was a lot of fun, and I'd still be doing it if there was a dojo located near my house.

For more info on Kendo: http://www.kendo-usa.org/. They've got some info and links to other sites.

Cheers,
Craig

ReverseLunge · 11-12-2002, 01:35 PM

Yes but what about when 2 Kendo fighters hit at the same time? How is that scored? Who has priority? The guy with the better spirit? How do you judge this?

attila · 11-12-2002, 02:06 PM

You got that right! We can never really know. That is why we always make fun of such a stoopid question. The best we can do is set up some funky close to IT thing. So maybe my next experiment is to electrify a swept hilt rapier versus an electric shinai and see what happens........

neevel · 11-12-2002, 02:50 PM

Ed-

Take a dry foil, and mount a grounded socket in the guard. Remove the rubber tip so that the end of the blade is exposed, then tape the blade beneath the nail-head just like you would an electric foil (so that flat touches won't register). Although you won't have the minimum tip pressure of an electric foil, you now have a foil that can be used on the sabre setting of a scoring box.

Mind you, the whole argument will still be akin to debating whether Brett Favre or Ruud van Nistelrooy is the better football player.

-Dave

***Craig*** · 11-12-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Yes but what about when 2 Kendo fighters hit at the same time? How is that scored? Who has priority? The guy with the better spirit? How do you judge this?

I suggest you go to some Kendo sites to ask this question. Not having competed in a kendo tournament, I can't tell you how it's actually scored.

Cheers,
Craig

I see dead people · 11-13-2002, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReverseLunge
Yes but what about when 2 Kendo fighters hit at the same time? How is that scored? Who has priority? The guy with the better spirit? How do you judge this?

There is no right of way in Kendo. At least not as the way ROE is in Sabre or Foil.

If both guys hit at the same time, nothing's done, the fight continues without interruption. So that makes the fighting a lot more intense.

The fight only stops either on time, or a single meaningful hit occurs.

It takes 3 touches to win in each bout.

The experiment with eletric shinai is not really meaningful as Kendo is not about ROE or getting the lights to go off, nor is real sword fight.

http://www.kendo-world.com/Downloads/nak_kura.mov

This is a real cool video clip from 49th All Japan Kendo Championship from kendo-world.com. One decisive action with exellent multi-angle replays. It's 8 MB in quicktime formate, so it might take sometime to download if you don't have a fast internet connection. Anyway, the action is definitely worth the wait.

attila · 11-13-2002, 02:59 AM

what a simply elegant solution......

BugabooX · 11-13-2002, 12:50 PM

It's common for kendo practitioners (aka "kendistas" or "kendites") to recognize "right of way" thusly: The first person to reach the door holds it open for the next guy. It's a very polite sport, akin to combat crochet.

epeemike81 · 11-13-2002, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BugabooX
It's a very polite sport, akin to combat crochet.

combat crochet?? as funny an image as that is, I'm thinking you might have meant Croquet.

-m

BugabooX · 11-13-2002, 05:51 PM

nah, i meant what i wrote.
:-) what's funny is that combat croquet could be any more plausible than combat crochet.