Strip/Piste length vs runoff (POLL)

[oiuyt]

Interesting question: Take a group of fencers, separated by primary weapon, and put them in a room with no lines of any type on the floor, and ask them to mark down where en garde lines ought to be, figure out which group does the best.

One of the strips that was used at NCAA Mid-Atlantic/South Regionals a year or two ago had the guard lines mis-marked a bit too close together (read: 3m or 3.5m, rather than 4m, apart). The epeeists ran a round of pools on that strip without comment. It was objected to and corrected* during the first bout of sabre put on that strip.

-B

* By corrected I mean tape markings to the side of the strip were placed at the correct points and used for the remainder of the day, while the drawn lines on the copper were ignored.

[KD5MDK]

I remember fencing Beau Brunson in sabre on a segmented metal strip that had an extra segment placed between the on guard lines instead of behind one of them. After the first action was a simultaneous double-advance lunge we changed where we treated as en garde. I think the strip may have been relaid after our bout but can't recall.

[Inquartata]

I cannot recall the last time I was run off the back of a strip. The last time I ran someone off was maybe 5 years ago. I don't think it happens often enough to warrant shortening it in the interest of a run-off, at least where sabre is concerned, unless you have a lot of bad/timid fencers who don't know any defensive tactics except "retreat until the ref calls halt"...

[Fiat Slug]

I think people are less likely to run people off the end of the strip during club bouts. However, I ran people off the end of the strip at each of the last 2 bay cup foil events I attended.

YMMV.

.

[Fiat Slug]

CFA. it sucks though. never, ever go there.

Wait! are you talking about the same CFA that has regulation strips, ample parking, young and energetic coaches, hyperactive kids, and colorful owner? Which of those attributes suck?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I think people are less likely to run people off the end of the strip during club bouts. However, I ran people off the end of the strip at each of the last 2 bay cup foil events I attended.

YMMV.

.

.... It's possible that any of that is true of foil, and even epee. When it comes to sabre, people being run off the end of the strip in practice or competition is rare. It happens, but it's not nearly the concern that the distance between guard lines is for sabre fencers.

This may be useful information for a club that has a lot of sabre fencers or no sabre fencers. Otherwise, with lots of different people using the same strips, it may not be as useful.

[bob46]

Wait! are you talking about the same CFA that has regulation strips, ample parking, young and energetic coaches, hyperactive kids, and colorful owner? Which of those attributes suck?

COLORFUL OWNER. VERY, VERY, COLORFUL OWNER. IN A VERY BAD WAY.

hyperactive kids, yes, they're generally all nice, but have really really bad form and are incredibly obnoxious to fence, leading to spectacular results in 10's thru possibly 14's, then generally dropping off as they get older, because more people can get the point onto the target while squirming.

i'm talking about the foil program here.

also, i find the archery program inside the fencing club...an interesting use of space. this last point is not an insult.

[oso97]

Regarding the engarde line distance:

Some years ago I showed up at an event with two of my sabre girls, midmorning of the first day. The pools of epee had been fenced and they were starting the DE's. After my girls finished their warmup, they went to an open strip to do some bouting, and I followed along to referee.

After bringing them engarde and inquiring as to their readiness, I said "Fence," and they stood there and looked at me. "This is wrong," one said. The other nodded in agreement.

The strips were laid out 5 meters between engarde lines.

[jjefferies]

Bad upload look below

[KD5MDK]

I have a problem with that. You might want to ask Keith.

[jjefferies]

Not to resurrect the poll. But here are some arguments for the short strip but regulation runoff. The Bay Cup final match between Keith and Mehment this past Saturday. Mehmet won but look at how the strip's short run off keeps Keith from fleching properly. This is the 5th of 5 videos of the final on youtube.

Taken with Motorola Droid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68bsECWaErA

[jjefferies]

I have a problem with that. You might want to ask Keith.

Not following what you meant. I had to go and redo the URL as it didn't get properly uploaded the last time.

[KD5MDK]

It bothers me that Keith was unable to push Mehmet off the back or fleche at the end. I don't know if it bothered him, however.

[jjefferies]

It bothers me that Keith was unable to push Mehmet off the back or fleche at the end. I don't know if it bothered him, however.

Keith and Mehmet spar three times a week at EBFG so they know each other very well. Usually my money would ride on Keith but as shown Mehmet can handle himself very well. Besides the thread that we're following here is that I do not see short strip rules being enforced in these videos. I'm going to have to follow up and see why not.

[delmet]

Keith and Mehmet spar three times a week at EBFG so they know each other very well. Usually my money would ride on Keith but as shown Mehmet can handle himself very well. Besides the thread that we're following here is that I do not see short strip rules being enforced in these videos. I'm going to have to follow up and see why not.

Short strip was enforced. I don't know how Keith feels, but I don't like having a wall on my back. Being pressured by space, my form suffers quite a bit. You can see how terrible I look when I am against the wall. I was pleased to see that my footwork has improved in the last year. But this only shows when I am mid strip. When I am against the wall, I am a little afraid to get injured.

The last touch was no good. I hit the floor, but didn't realize; you can see it in the video. If the floor was grounded, it most probably would have been mine though, as I don't think he hit me.

Keith is a great fencer though. Powerful, and technically very strong.

[seven6ty]

Besides the thread that we're following here is that I do not see short strip rules being enforced in these videos. I'm going to have to follow up and see why not.

Are "short strip rules" in the rule book? I had never heard of such a thing before moving up here, and find it rather curious.

[DHCJr]

Are "short strip rules" in the rule book? I had never heard of such a thing before moving up here, and find it rather curious.

There are a lot of things NOT in the rulebook. You have to look at the Operations Manual. You will find it here http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/doc...Ops_Manual.pdf I know it says 2006, but that is the latest. See 3.1.C.5.a on page 3-2.

[Zanthyna]

Personally, I would much rather have the extra runoff space. A close wall effects fencing by limiting fleching and preventing fencers from using their entire end of the strip. IMHO, this has a far larger negative impact on fencing than a short strip does.

One of the clubs I practice at has a short runoff, and when I'm near/in my warning area (which is most of the time), I'm distracted thinking about how much ground I can give before I hit a wall and possibly injure myself. I see this primarily as a safety issue.

I do think the two-color strip idea is a good compromise, however, as it allows the fencers to decide for themselves which is more important.