Why Div2 and Div3?

[seak]

seven6ty

Your point holds a certain amount of water for the div2/3 tournaments (if you are ok with saying no one below a C can compete at a national level, but I think that's a different philosophical debate), but not for the age groups you've mentioned.

The reality is that when you compete you want to compete against the best of your peers. That's why events are gender segregated (and should be) at a national level. The reality is that a 14yo's peer is not a 25yo adult. As you reach the top of your peer group you move up to the next one.

All sports are stratified such that people can improve and compete as they age. This provides the best results in the long run.

[kapunga]

1. You need to develop the skills to get the score to 14-14 first... Before you start worrying about what to do at that point.

2. Advanced fencers certainly aren't going to improve any more by spending the day at home, rather than out at a tournament.

1) If you are fencing an evenly matched opponent you have the fencing skills to get to 14-14. There is no reason you should wait until you are competing at a very high level before developing these skills. Even if you never will reach that level, the mental skills needed to deal with high pressure situations are applicable to life, not just fencing, and there is no reason why you shouldn't learn them just because you aren't a high level fencer.

2) Of course advanced fencers aren't going to improve any more spending the day at home. This isn't an argument about what fencers should sign up for, it's an argument about what should be offered. Most competitive fencers I know sign up for every tournament they can. However, given the choice between an Open, and a B and Above event, high level fencers will pick the B and Above every time. The point here is that there is value in fencing in tournaments where you will compete against those around your skill level that has nothing to do with feeling good about yourself.

I'd put it to you that if I was so concerned with my self-esteem, I'd ONLY fence in Opens. I don't expect to win those, then I could go through the usual self-esteem garbage of telling myself I'm a winner because I tried hard and got a couple good touches on tough fencers. Whereas if I don't do well in a D and under, man, I really must suck, no way of talking myself out of that.

To sum up, I think the self esteem movement is a colossal load of crap as well, I just don't think having tournaments separated by skill level is responsible for the pansification of America.

[stillchris]

Plus some or us are just not as awesome as seven6ty and may need to settle for less.

[shlepzig]

I am a little interested in knowing where Seven6ty is coming from, aside from just sounding like a troll.

Seven6ty, are you against the USFA allowing the existence of Div II Div III and Y type events? Is your ideal that all events be open to all fencers of all skill levels and all ages/genders? What is it you think is ideal for competition?

If the goal is to make Summer Nationals simply a championship event for elite fencers for the country. Eliminating Div II/III and Y events would streamline the event considerably and probably represent significant streamlining for the elite competitors.

If the goal is to develop those champions from youth to Cadet, Junior and Senior Champions (lets not forget us veterans), it makes sense to have these events at a national level. At a local level, less experienced fencers learn tournament tactics and gain experience from competing within their peers. The clubs gain the coverage of the USFA and attact a larger field of beginners by sanctioning those events. Within a division it becomes possible for clubs to hold events of different skill levels on the same weekend without drawing them down. An open at Club A will attract the most advanced fencers, while Div II and Div III events at club B and C can draw fencers that want to swim in the shallow end of the pool. Youth events allow fencers young (duh) fencers to develop those skills from a young age and become the champions of the future.

I think the system is fairly well thought out. It probably wouldn't suffer much from some tweaking here and there. I don't think that abolishing it would do a service to fencing in America as a whole. I think aboloshing the Div and Y classifications would alienate developing fencers, and without them champions aren't developed.

My family plans summer nationals as a vacation each year. I compete, my kids compete. We qualify in several events each so we get to spend some time there. It's a good time and good competition, but I am past the stage where I have olympic dreams, my kids are just considering theirs. Having the opportunity to compete against serious competitors in that venue has been a valuable experience for them.

-Shlep

[seven6ty]

I am a little interested in knowing where Seven6ty is coming from, aside from just sounding like a troll.

I'm a troll, because I like fencing people? I like fencing women, I like fencing men. I like fencing kids, as much as I like fencing people 50+. I like fencing unwieldy and unpredictable fencers, just like I enjoy fencing Olympians. I've won tournaments, and I've come in dead last, and I can tell you without a doubt, that the moments in fencing that have molded me the most were never tournaments that I won, no matter how easy or difficult it was. I've always learned, grown and developed the most by having someone kick the pants off of my ass. It's nothing to be afraid or ashamed of, but something to learn from. How you deal with these situations reveals and exposes character.

I don't believe that they way to make 16 year olds better fencers is to try and pigeon-hole them into fencing with only other 16 and under kids, but by fencing the broadest range of people possible. I've seen plenty of women who won't fence with men, because it's not what they'll be experiencing in a tournament. But I find that the strongest and most well rounded women fencers don't have issue with fencing men or women.

Of course it makes sense to have some general segregation for sexes and ages, but I think the current USFA competitive structure goes too far, with trying to create a separate category for every single conceivable category that they can come up with. That's all.

[KD5MDK]

If the goal is to make Summer Nationals simply a championship event for elite fencers for the country. Eliminating Div II/III and Y events would streamline the event considerably and probably represent significant streamlining for the elite competitors.

The elite competitors are fencing Division I Nationals anyway. The absence of other events doesn't particularly streamline it for them.