Trouble in Epee

[BlackPelican]

I have come up against many fencers who like to keep their fencing blades close to their chest. If I attack into them, I get parried, and if I Don't do anything, they close the distance with their blade back so they can attack. What would be an effective strategy against this?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by BlackPelican

What would be an effective strategy against this?

Deceiving the parry.

Remising after the parry.

Drawing the attack and dealing with it (parry or counter-attack, as fitting).

Figuring out how an epeeist with his or her blade near his or her chest is parrying you in the first place and not allowing that to happen.

-B

[jjefferies]

Sounds like you were facing a foilist. IF so their parries are often large.

If oiuyt's comments aren't direct enough, threaten them with multiple thrusts/feints then
go for the toe or the chest with a deceive.

Someone said 80% of all epee touches are to the body. So get comfortable with the distance and hit first.

[noahz]

Close distance so a simple, fast lunge to the body can't be parried. This takes a lot of confidence, however.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by BlackPelican

I have come up against many fencers who like to keep their fencing blades close to their chest. If I attack into them, I get parried, and if I Don't do anything, they close the distance with their blade back so they can attack. What would be an effective strategy against this?

Ditto on all of the above.
Really depends on your height, reach and type of a handle vs. the opponent's, besides the obvious - style, preference, point control, ability to control the location on the strip, your agility, footwork, explosiveness, etc..., but you've come up against many dilettante fencers lately;
on attack - feint + disengage or coupe, change 2nd or 3rd intention target leading to your preferred one;
extend and disengage into their final action - they will bring the opening to you,
my preference, 'specially with lefties - miss by a narrow margin with a lunge - leave your hand and hit with a remise, make it a 3rd intention on non-flecheists by pulling distance on them (especially deep in their territory = so they are forced to attack short), i.e. - miss + fake miss + remise - first to the hand - if you miss that one , take an opposition (counter 6 with lefties, breaking he wrist in) to the inside shoulder, if you miss that one - disengage with the hit to the body. You should not do worse than a double.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by noahz

Close distance so a simple, fast lunge to the body can't be parried. This takes a lot of confidence, however.

QFT

(extra stuff)

[parrythis]

Originally Posted by BlackPelican

I have come up against many fencers who like to keep their fencing blades close to their chest.

What direction is the blade pointing?

If it is pointing up in the air, they are likely exposing the bottom of their arm to you. Aim for that and hit it as they lower their arm to counter-attack you. If you miss, disengage from what will probably be a low-line parry and hit them on the upper arm or shoulder.

If their blade is pointing at you, but their hand is close to their chest, give them an invitation to hit your arm. When they go for it, take their blade in six and counter-attack to their shoulder.

[Fechter1]

Originally Posted by BlackPelican

I have come up against many fencers who like to keep their fencing blades close to their chest. If I attack into them, I get parried, and if I Don't do anything, they close the distance with their blade back so they can attack. What would be an effective strategy against this?

What you're seing here is a perfect example of a foilist fencing epee. These tactics can work very well against less trained epee fencers. Unfortunately, these opponents can instill some bad habits in developing fencers, especially if they're encountered frequently.

Depending on your own skill level, there are plenty of countertactics to beat these fencers.

First, you need to be aware of their training, and primary reactions. Foil fencers live on parries. I.e., if attacked, they are most likely to parry rather than counter. This means that you can use feints, but be aware that you may need more than one.
Another option might be attacks to non-foil targets (mask, knee, foot), which may not register fully as threats. ( omitted the hand, because as you said, it's well withdrawn)
I would try to avoid getting into parrying series with foilists. Unfortunately, this pretty much rules out a lot of the second intention actions.

Defensively, parries are not going to be very useful. Again, as foilists, they would be trained to defeat parries, either by absence of blade tactics (as the case is here), or through counterparries. Straight counterattacks may work best, at least initially, until your opponent switches to second intention actions.
Offensive counterattacks will depend mostly on speed and target selection. Chest is least desirable. I would go for mask (may be considered rude, but it's perfectly legal, especially if it's the closest target) or the arm (preemptive targetting, placing the point where the elbow is going).
If you try to go with defensive counterattacks, easiest is to simply place your point where the arm is going. Let them extend into your point.

But again, beware the second intention.

Caveat: These are the impressions of an irredeemable epee fencer, who has encountered more than a few foil fencers.

[JacoKierkegaard]

Originally Posted by Fechter1

What you're seing here is a perfect example of a foilist fencing epee. These tactics can work very well against less trained epee fencers. Unfortunately, these opponents can instill some bad habits in developing fencers, especially if they're encountered frequently.

Depending on your own skill level, there are plenty of countertactics to beat these fencers.

First, you need to be aware of their training, and primary reactions. Foil fencers live on parries. I.e., if attacked, they are most likely to parry rather than counter. This means that you can use feints, but be aware that you may need more than one.
Another option might be attacks to non-foil targets (mask, knee, foot), which may not register fully as threats. ( omitted the hand, because as you said, it's well withdrawn)
I would try to avoid getting into parrying series with foilists. Unfortunately, this pretty much rules out a lot of the second intention actions.

Defensively, parries are not going to be very useful. Again, as foilists, they would be trained to defeat parries, either by absence of blade tactics (as the case is here), or through counterparries. Straight counterattacks may work best, at least initially, until your opponent switches to second intention actions.
Offensive counterattacks will depend mostly on speed and target selection. Chest is least desirable. I would go for mask (may be considered rude, but it's perfectly legal, especially if it's the closest target) or the arm (preemptive targetting, placing the point where the elbow is going).
If you try to go with defensive counterattacks, easiest is to simply place your point where the arm is going. Let them extend into your point.

But again, beware the second intention.

Caveat: These are the impressions of an irredeemable epee fencer, who has encountered more than a few foil fencers.

+1. I've got an epee-fencing foilist I'm having trouble against, and this echoes my experience. I'll have to keep some of these in mind.