French Grip or Pistol Grip?

[JengibreXD]

I'm new to fencing and looking into purchasing practice foils and epees, but I was wondering about french vs. pistol grips. I know most experienced fencers use pistol, but I would like to know why and whether sticking with french would really matter in the long run.

[touchefriend]

Many fencers at every level use french grips for epee. I've seen pistol grips used for foil much more than french grips in competetion. Since the action of the fingers is the same on both types(theoretically) it should not matter.

[jjrenaud]

when you choose a grip for a weapon take the grip model who give you the better feeling of comfort. if you have the habit with a french grip and you feel well with it continue. if you're not sure about wich one is the best for you, try both in your fencing club.

[Morale Officer]

What jjrenaud said! I use pistol grips on my foil because they're more comfortable for me...well, that, and I'm afraid if I used a french grip that I'd revert completely over to sabre (I'm primarily sabre but dabble in foil)...not a bad thing unless you're in the middle of a foil tournament and try to do a head cut on your opponent (been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, wear it to all of my sabre tournaments!)!

[SJCFU#2]

Many fencers at every level use french grips for epee. I've seen pistol grips used for foil much more than french grips in competetion. Since the action of the fingers is the same on both types(theoretically) it should not matter.

There's a simple reason why some (but not all) top level epee fencers use French grips while almost no top level foil fencers do. It's because a French grip allows you to post (or pommel) the grip, holding it far back from the guard to increase your reach (a pistol grip is required to fix the hand in one position with the thumb no more than 2 cm from the inside of the guard). When properly used this extra reach can provide enough of an advantage to offset the loss of strength associated with a French grip, but only in epee. Extra reach provides little advantage in foil to offset the loss of strength.

To the OP - you can always buy a French grip for now and convert it to pistol at some point in the future.

[Fencergrl]

<fencergrl points up>
What he said....

SJCFU#2's right. You can always cut the tang of your blade down to pistol grip later, but you can't add a piece to make it a French grip if you change your mind. Start with a French grip, check out other's pistol grips and see if you find a type that you like if you decide to go that route. The French grip is the best for your first blade.

[CvilleFencer]

I am going to disagree a little bit with the advice above. If you are going to fence foil competitively, get a pistol grip for your foil. Why bother to buy something you know you are going to have to unlearn or a practice blade you know you will have to modify. I am fazing out the Fgrip foils in my clubs loaner gear and teach pistol grip only the last few rounds of beginners classes. I have yet to hear a good reason why anyone would start with a French Grip, but a huge number of clubs go this route.

In epee, as has been said, the only advantage is if you are going to pommel. If not, or if it is not something your coach is going to teach you, get a pistol grip. As for what kind, there have been a lot of threads on that, but I am a big fan of the smallest Italian Visconti that you can get proper finger position on. Or to put another way, find one that feels comfy to a newbie and go at least one size down.

[Nico]

I normally fence Saber, so I am forced to use the french grip.

But when I do fence foil, I'll definitely go pistol. Why? Because it's easier to control because the grip stays in your hand more easily, as well as better dexterity and movement.

Then of course there are different kinds of pistol grips, visconti, belgium, german, they're all good. I like visconti the most though.

[mrbiggs]

Don't fence foil with a French grip. There's no reason to.

[Nico]

There's no reason not to either.

Besides, if your new (1-4 months) than just stick with the french grip until you get more experience and your technique gains dexterity, agileness, speed, and good momentum. Just do what your instructors say and work hard at it. Make sure to do tournaments! They give you alot of experience.

[mrbiggs]

There's no reason not to either.

There's no reason not to take a horse to work, but I'm going to take a car there anyway because it's faster, easier, and gets the job done better in just about every possible way.

The horse will get you there, and if you like horses, I'm not gonna stop you from riding one. But when someone asks me how to get to work, I'm going to recommend a car.

[6-flick]

I'm new to fencing and looking into purchasing practice foils and epees, but I was wondering about french vs. pistol grips. I know most experienced fencers use pistol, but I would like to know why and whether sticking with french would really matter in the long run.

In the long run, you will have weaker beats/parries than your competition, have a much less stable grip on your weapon, and not be able to flick. It will always be a significant disadvantage (in foil).

[RITFencing]

I normally fence Saber, so I am forced to use the french grip.

Sabres use a sabre grip, not a french.

[oiuyt]

I have yet to hear a good reason why anyone would start with a French Grip, but a huge number of clubs go this route.

It's cheaper and easier to supply a class with the appropriate number of french grips (in RH and LH) than to supply a similar-sized class with the appropriate number of orthopedic grips (in RH and LH and in 2-3 sizes), even when standardizing on exclusively one orthopedic choice (e.g. visconti). It makes sense from a club/class perspective when stocking class equipment to be used by a wide range of different people over time.

French grips are a bit more user-neutral than orthopedics.

Most of the commonly-cited reasons (e.g. avoiding the "death grip", promotion of finger use), on the other hand, just point to bad instruction, as far as I'm concerned.

-B

[CvilleFencer]

Oiuyt I do agree with you on the logic of "it is simpler and cheaper to equip a club with French grips" than to invest in a stock/range of pistol grips. LP even makes an ambidextrous French grip. Course if bottom line cost is the determining factor of what is best, just use wooden dowel rods with tape grips and soda can bell guards.

[oiuyt]

Oiuyt I do agree with you on the logic of "it is simpler and cheaper to equip a club with French grips" than to invest in a stock/range of pistol grips. LP even makes an ambidextrous French grip. Course if bottom line cost is the determining factor of what is best, just use wooden dowel rods with tape grips and soda can bell guards.

I would argue that it's not the only factor.

It is enough of a factor to answer the call for a "good reason why". Which, notably, was not a request for an answer and rationale to the question of "what is best" for clubs to use.

-B

[TodG]

<fencergrl points up>
What he said....

SJCFU#2's right. You can always cut the tang of your blade down to pistol grip later, but you can't add a piece to make it a French grip if you change your mind.

Unless you use the Paul carbon fiber French grip, which uses a stub tang just like a pistol grip.

[zenschooloffencing]

If you are getting foils and Epees I would suggest the pistol grip. No decent fencers fence foil with a french grip and a small minority of fencers fence epee with a french grip (not that is better or worse there are just less).

Besides if you are fencing both foil and epee you will confuse yourself by fencing 2 different weapons with 2 different grips.

[JengibreXD]

Good points all. As for why clubs use french at least for beginners, another reason is that most everyone(at least in my club) learns on foil, and then changes weapons. It's easier to let everyone learn on french because some of those fencers will fence sabre, which is like most similar to french, as Morale said.

[DangerMouse]

You mean the way Jeannet confuses himself fencing epee with two different grips? Or Robieri?