Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

edew · 11-12-2002, 12:23 PM

Just had a chance to see the women's team sabre. Well, I'm impressed, especially with the Hungarian team. I'll make a bold prediction that the Hungarian women's sabre team will win a gold at 2004 (if there is a team event for women's sabre...will there be?).

Imagine this: several parry ripostes, even one successful counter-parry riposte (and several unsuccessful ones), albeit the fencer had to literally fall to her knees to complete it.

There were many preparations to set-up a parry-riposte. Many were unsuccessful, but I think with a bit more polishing, they (the Hungarians) would be doing some serious bu77-kicking.

The Hungarian team led for most of the match (indeed, they were behind 5-4 after the first, and were ahead 40-37 by the last). At one point, they were twice ahead of the Russians, 30-15 or something like that. Then Bezhenova from Russia came back with a tremendous rally against Csaba (who I thought was the best fencer in the bunch) to pull up to 40-37. Makeeva subbed in for Joukova during the 7th bout and also helped pulled the score close.

Still, as we all know about the team match format, everyone had to pull their weight. With a 40-37 lead going into the last bout, Nagy from Hungary HAD to do something to win it. She was fencing Netchaeva, the one who took third in the individuals, but she didn't do enough.

I was also surprised by some of the calls, especially the "winning" touch. If you watch that touch and watch the Xue-Jemayeva bout and its winning touch, you see practically the same action. In the Xue-Jemayeva bout, Xue (rightly, I thought) got the touch. In the Hungary-Russia bout, it went the other way.

In any case, I thought this bout really redeemed my bias against the state of women's sabre. I think if they fenced like what I saw, there's a future in it.

Lastly, I will be making dupe/edits this week and will provide more information on how to order.

I see dead people · 11-13-2002, 12:04 AM

I would be great if you could get them on CD or DVD.
They are much easier to produce, cheaper to make, and less expensive to ship, plus no quality loss due to reproduction!!

edew · 11-13-2002, 02:02 AM

My VCR is bought and more-or-less paid for. I have no DVD burning equipment at the moment. Of course, if you want to spring for a PowerBook with SuperDrive, I'll be happy to take one of them to produce DVDs.

I would say, by the 2004 Olympics, people will be receiving their copies on DVDs. By then, the VCR medium for television displaying will be pretty much obsolete.

Are there localization issues with DVDs? I recall having to set my DVD player on my computer to "1" or something like that, which supposedly prevents it from playing DVDs set to "2" or some other value. Anyone know?

JEC · 11-13-2002, 04:24 AM

Yes, most computer DVD players have the ability for setting it 5 times before you are unable to change it. Of course, as you know, you could find a program on the web to reset that. I renew the offer but now until next month.

mfp · 11-13-2002, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by edew
Are there localization issues with DVDs? I recall having to set my DVD player on my computer to "1" or something like that, which supposedly prevents it from playing DVDs set to "2" or some other value. Anyone know?

Region codes info:

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.10

NTSC vs PAL info:

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.19

Anyone who wans to create a DVD that will work on most DVD players throughout the world should create a region "code free" DVD in NTSC format.

JEC · 11-13-2002, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Anyone who wans to create a DVD that will work on most DVD players throughout the world should create a region "code free" DVD in NTSC format.

It's an option when burning DVDs, but not for the typical DVD/CD-R drive. PM me if you need further info.

edew · 11-13-2002, 04:55 AM

I will also check with my duplicator folks. I'm sure they're savvy enough to produce duplicates onto DVDs. If there's a large enough demand from the masses here, I can do that. There's not much degradation going from tape to tape to DVD. Actually, the bulk of the degradation is in the the conversion from PAL to HTSC.

Maybe we should ask Peter G to get a DVD burner for the next time! (Of course, we should all help contribute to that, shouldn't we?)

damianip · 11-13-2002, 07:55 AM

DVDs would be good. No wear and tear like the tape.

DVD compatibility is still a bit tricky on the "consumer" burners. However, if the "pros" do it, I guess it should be fine.

Paolo

Pierfrancesco · 11-13-2002, 08:24 AM

i'm down for DVD. you could fit nearly the whole lot on there..

PAL DVD would be even better

JEC · 11-13-2002, 09:10 AM

Using a HDTV monitor, you can see a clear difference between VHS tape and DVD. The main question is the format of the initial recording. Every duplication, editing, with VHS tapes diminishes the quality of sequential recordings. MiniDV is probably the best pro-sumer recording media. Using firewire, the acquisition of the original and subsequent editing is stunning without diminishing resolution.
The great majority (>90%) of DVD (stand alone) players made after 1999 would be compatible with DVD-R and DVD+R.

darius · 11-13-2002, 11:59 AM

I'm probably in the vast minority here, but I own neither a TV or a VCR -- I generally go out to watch movies, or catch Colts games at the local sports bar. Woo, convergence!!

Offering the WC tapes in DVD will directly impact my purchase decision.

I believe the cost of dupes is lower, as well -- you might be able to charge the same amount and raise more for Peter.

darius

edew · 11-13-2002, 12:56 PM

What was that above post all about?

Anyway, back to DVDs and such:

The initial recording is on tape. There are also technical problems on the transmission to the receiving TV/VCR (i.e., problems on Eurosport's end), so the overall quality is limited by these two factors as several people (the above notwithstanding) have pointed out.

As I said earlier, I plan to make 3-hour tapes. At the moment, there are no 3-hr DVDs within a reasonable price-range. Also, I spoke with the duplicator folks. They said that the cost to make DVDs from tapes will run around several thousand dollars, with the cost per DVD going down after a huge number of copies. In other words, high up front cost, low per-disk cost.

The person also did say that by next year, the overall costs (fixed and per-disk) will drop down dramatically and DVDs will compete well on price alone against tapes.

I would like to get a superdrive on my PowerBook to eventually do the DVD burning myself, but the time's not quite there yet. When I do, then I can also tinker with color balance and other issues which I can't at the moment do: all I'm doing at the moment is taping from a PAL to NTSC, with editing being just deleting portions. There's no color balancing, no voice-overs, no post-production graphics.

Again, I strongly expect that the 2004 Olympics will be on DVD format, both from Peter and me.

I see dead people · 11-13-2002, 02:10 PM

A good DVD burner these days is around 320 dollars. The cost of the media is about one dollar per DVD. And for TV resolution, you can fit way more than 3 hours of video on a DVD. If you don't already have a video capture card on your computer, it will cost you 200 dollars more. Sum it up, it won't cost you several thoudsand dollars(520 or less), nevertheless an initial cost is unavoidable.

JEC · 11-13-2002, 05:58 PM

It is not so much as the cost of the media, software, and hardware, but mastering a DVD involves quite a bit of editing to do a good job (bitration, chapters, etc.). Then, duplication services would charge you for about $10/disc if it is a simple job.
DVD burning from a master takes over an hour for each DVD. If you are looking to sell under 100, it is more a hobby than a business proposition. In that case, the more cost effective measure is to just burn from the edited VHS tape, but that would not be to its full resolution potential.

Daylight · 11-14-2002, 10:16 AM

Snippage from Eric Dew's post:

"I will predict some major changes in who the powerhouses will be by 2004: the asian countries. China and Korea will be the two big powerhouses in fencing."

I just wanted to add a response to your comment. *small smile* I spent part of this summer studying law at the University of Peking and got the honor of watching and fencing with the Chinese Olympic team. *grins* I am forever greatful to the head coach of the PRC's Fencing team for allowing me the pleasure. All I can say is...WOW! I haven't seen your tapes (though I hope to be able to purchase them later) but I've seen the fencers and I would have to agree with you Eric. They're good....they're really good.

damianip · 11-14-2002, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daylight
Snippage from Eric Dew's post:

"I will predict some major changes in who the powerhouses will be by 2004: the asian countries. China and Korea will be the two big powerhouses in fencing."

I just wanted to add a response to your comment. *small smile* I spent part of this summer studying law at the University of Peking and got the honor of watching and fencing with the Chinese Olympic team. *grins* I am forever greatful to the head coach of the PRC's Fencing team for allowing me the pleasure. All I can say is...WOW! I haven't seen your tapes (though I hope to be able to purchase them later) but I've seen the fencers and I would have to agree with you Eric. They're good....they're really good.

Aren't they already powerhouses? C'mon let's give them credit where it's due. Men's foil and women's épée teams are serious contenders.

Lee and Ku of Korea have bronzes in épée at Sydney and Lisboa. The only reason Kim didn't get the credit he deserved over the years was that Golubitsky was his contemporary.

Both countries deserve to be mentioned with Germany, France, Russia and Italy where point weapons are concerned.

Paolo

darius · 11-14-2002, 11:25 AM

...And just when I had gotten used to the Eastern European accents, too! So when is the influx of Asian fencing coaches going to begin?

darius

edew · 11-14-2002, 12:48 PM

Well, there's Mr. Ma in South Jersey. His fencers are beautiful to watch, and are competitively capable to match. There's Juan Jujie in Canada. She did some really good work with the Canadian men's foil team several years back. Brought in a whole bunch of non-French (i.e., Montreal) Canadian fencers into the mix.

Other than that, I can't think of any, although I'm sure there are others.

The main reason, I think, is that China has money to keep them at home. Many of the East Europeans who come here come because staying in their home country is so much worse.

darius · 11-14-2002, 01:11 PM

I've not seen any of Jujie's students, but if they fence anywhere near her level, I'm sure I'll see them on your tapes (er...DVDs) in the future.

She's one helluva fencer, and that's not even taking into account little things like age, time spent away from the sport, and kids.

darius

Purple Fencer · 11-14-2002, 02:51 PM

Quote:

The only reason Kim didn't get the credit he deserved over the years was that Golubitsky was his contemporary.

Ahhhh...Golubitsky/Kim 1997...STILL my fave bout in any weapon!

Eric...I'm teaching my sabre student to parry (and to do a beat attack)...will that help? (Assuming she outgrows me -- fairly quickly I'd say -- and hooks up with a REAL sabre coach!)