Foil techniques?

[mach11]

I was wondering if anyone could give me some techniques i could practice for foil fencing. I am still a beginner but i find my practices frustrating. I fence at a college club and they seperate the experienced fencers pratice from the "newbies" practice. I undestand i am still a newbie but we practice 1 hour at a time 3 times a week. For the first 20-30 minutes we warm up with footwork and then move into blade work and some practice we bout.

My problem is that because so many of the new fencers are freshman in college and dont know how to budget time they skip practices. So when we get to blade work they have us practice routine parry 4, parry 6, lunge, step lunge, beat attack, etc... However instead of just practice to get the muscle memory we end up doing that (one thing not all of them ie. just parry 4) all practice because they have to reteach all of the people who never come to practice. Therefore, I haven't really learned many techniques recently. I was wondering if anyone could giv me a few techniques to practice on my own with my roommate who also fences at the club. We have extra time during the week but find we dont really have anything to practice.

Thanks!

[Fiat Slug]

I was wondering if anyone could give me some techniques i could practice for foil fencing. I am still a beginner but i find my practices frustrating. I fence at a college club and they seperate the experienced fencers pratice from the "newbies" practice. I undestand i am still a newbie but we practice 1 hour at a time 3 times a week. For the first 20-30 minutes we warm up with footwork and then move into blade work and some practice we bout.

My problem is that because so many of the new fencers are freshman in college and dont know how to budget time they skip practices. So when we get to blade work they have us practice routine parry 4, parry 6, lunge, step lunge, beat attack, etc... However instead of just practice to get the muscle memory we end up doing that (one thing not all of them ie. just parry 4) all practice because they have to reteach all of the people who never come to practice. Therefore, I haven't really learned many techniques recently. I was wondering if anyone could giv me a few techniques to practice on my own with my roommate who also fences at the club. We have extra time during the week but find we dont really have anything to practice.

Thanks!

If you are proficient with the simple high-line parries (4th and 6th), then the next logical parries are the circular parries (4th and 6th) as well as the simple lowline parries (7th and 8th). From an attack perspective, many coaches will next teach disengages and cutovers. As far as footwork goes, you can always add an advance or a retreat with your lunge. There's also the forward recovery after a lunge.

You should talk with your coach and see if you can practice with the advanced fencers once a week. This will let your coach know that you're ready for greater challenges. Even if you're not ready to join the advanced fencers full-time, this will at least start your transition.

Are you able to beat most of the other newbies regularly during practice bouts? If so, then that's another sign that you may be ready to move up.

.

[eac]

You are trying to get coaching via the Internet. Empirically, this does not work. What you need to do is go and get a coach who will make you better. Remember to check whether they have made other people better before betting that they will make you better.

[dramamine]

You are trying to get coaching via the Internet. Empirically, this does not work. What you need to do is go and get a coach who will make you better. Remember to check whether they have made other people better before betting that they will make you better.

You might find this answer dissatisfying but it is true. It is extremely unlikely that you'll be able to progress substantially without at least some coaching, especially as a beginner.

If you really want to try and do things on your own time, practice basic footwork movements while focusing on taking very small steps and keeping your knees bent, work on your flexibility, and practice doing disengagements and cutovers using your fingers. It's unwise to do too much without somebody watching you, though, because you may be making technical mistakes that repetition is just going to make more ingrained.

Also, you'd be surprised how basic the vast majority of actions in high level fencing are. You rarely see fencers in foil use more than a couple of preferred parries, or do more than one or two disengagements during an attack, for example. The best fencers tend to do very simple things at a very high efficiency at the right time, and that's about it.

[catwood1]

Also, you'd be surprised how basic the vast majority of actions in high level fencing are. You rarely see fencers in foil use more than a couple of preferred parries, or do more than one or two disengagements during an attack, for example. The best fencers tend to do very simple things at a very high efficiency at the right time, and that's about it.

QFT. This is so fantastically true, it almost surprises me it came from someone on the internet.

Good fencers aren't good because they do high level actions. They are good because they do the same actions at a higher level. Better timing, better distance (not the same as footwork), better understanding of whats going on, and often considerably cleaner.

They aren't doing the mystical "win attack"...

[dramamine]

Wow, you're naive. The win attack is taught by any decent coach nowadays, along with parries 10,11 and 13 (there is no parry 12).

I just didn't want to confuse the guy...

[catwood1]

Wow, you're naive. The win attack is taught by any decent coach nowadays, along with parries 10,11 and 13 (there is no parry 12).

10, 11, and 13...

Duck, Squirm, and Jump. Right?

You don't know know 12? It is wear chest plate.

[noodle]

10, 11, and 13...

Duck, Squirm, and Jump. Right?

You don't know know 12? It is wear chest plate.

its clear you don't know anything. chest plate is useless without proper chest bump parry technique.

[Fiat Slug]

You are trying to get coaching via the Internet. Empirically, this does not work. What you need to do is go and get a coach who will make you better. Remember to check whether they have made other people better before betting that they will make you better.

I have to disagree with this. We already know that a bunch of monkeys with typewriters can produce Shakespeare so it's only logical that a bunch of similarly talented fencers with computers can coach world-class fencers.

.

[erooMynohtnA]

I have to disagree with this. We already know that a bunch of monkeys with typewriters can produce Shakespeare so it's only logical that a bunch of similarly talented fencers with computers can coach world-class fencers.

Not the case, since monkeys on typewriters signify random chance.

A broken watch is right twice a day, but a slow watch is wrong all day long.

[noodle]

Not the case, since monkeys on typewriters signify random chance.

A broken watch is right twice a day, but a slow watch is wrong all day long.

a slow watch is still right sometimes

[Fiat Slug]

a slow watch is still right sometimes

Precisely!!! Furthermore, fdn is not a single slow watch but a large collection of slow watches. This collection of slow watches will be able to coach high-caliber fencing.

.

[foibles]

A man with a watch knows the time, a man with two is never quite sure, and a man with a slow watch is either an optimist, lazy, or knows a workable excuse when he wears one.

Also:
An infinite number of drunken rednecks in an infinite number of F150s shooting at an infinite number of stop signs will eventually write the entire Hank Williams Songbook... in braille.

[MdA]

You are trying to get coaching via the Internet. Empirically, this does not work. What you need to do is go and get a coach who will make you better. Remember to check whether they have made other people better before betting that they will make you better.

I’m curious. How do you suggest a beginner “check whether they (a fencing coach) have made other people better”?

Who should a beginner trust….local fencers…..the keyboard experts here at f.net?

[Dev]

Actually, I believe eac prefers to count the number of a given coach's students on the USFA National Rolling Points Standings. While that's certainly one empirical measure, it strikes me as fairly high standards for a high school beginner.

[MdA]

Actually, I believe eac prefers to count the number of a given coach's students on the USFA National Rolling Points Standings. While that's certainly one empirical measure, it strikes me as fairly high standards for a high school beginner.

I caution fencers (and parents) about using a strictly empirical method for deciding on a fencing coach. See thread below

Fencing Master Diploma – Need one?

…there are several fencers who make the national point list in spite of bad coaching….and many well qualified coaches with no fencers on the list.

[MdA]

For the OP, and other American fencers in the same situation.

I suggest you go to the following link....

http://usfca.org/Default.aspx?tabid=134

Pick a coach in your area. I am confident that they can give you good beginner foil lessons.

I can't be sure about everybody else.

[eac]

I read that thread. It seems to be mostly you trying to stand between talented coaches and coaching by trying to have bureaucratic hoops to jump through, so they can get a piece of paper handed to them by someone who embodies all the old, tired ways of doing things.

I'm not even sure what your claim about qualified coaches who haven't produced results, or results by fencers with unqualified coaches, even means. I imagine it means that the good fencers in question have coaches who haven't been handed any of your pieces of paper. But presumably it also means you think people who have been coaching for a long time and never produced anyone good, but have one or more of your pieces of paper, are still somehow good coaches, and people who want to be good should somehow bet that they will be the first people from this coach to ever be good.

(Coaches who haven't been coaching for a long time can't be empirically evaluated, because the experiment takes a while.)

Preaching this, in my opinion, is irresponsible and misleading.

(Note: This is not to say that I think all coaches' education is dumb. Only that rejecting empiricism in favor of looking only at "qualifications" is very, very wrong.)

[MdA]

.....
(Note: This is not to say that I think all coaches' education is dumb. Only that rejecting empiricism in favor of looking only at "qualifications" is very, very wrong.)

I'm not preaching anything....I am suggesting that fencers look at both....results and certification.

[darius]

But presumably it also means you think people who have been coaching for a long time and never produced anyone good, but have one or more of your pieces of paper, are still somehow good coaches, and people who want to be good should somehow bet that they will be the first people from this coach to ever be good.

It comes down to what 'good' is for each individual. I know what it is for you, but not for everybody.

There are clubs that exist solely as feeder clubs - the coaches lament that once their students get good, they pretty much go to a more established club. That's fine if the feeder club accepts that role and concentrates on teaching the lower levels well and making a profit, but almost everybody who coaches fencing wants to claim that they're a highly-competitive coach.

In my brain, what ends up being important in the long run is that the fencer has a positive experience in the sport. As a coach, it's my responsibility to figure out what will make their experience positive -- it may be a world team, a NAC final, a local Div3 medal, or learning something cool to talk about at the bar afterwards. Once we get the idea, we work towards that goal and keep one eye open, because it sometimes changes.

(Note: This is not to say that I think all coaches' education is dumb. Only that rejecting empiricism in favor of looking only at "qualifications" is very, very wrong.)

Then again, it's hard to get empiricism in certain places. If you seriously want to make a World Champ team, looking at the points list is a pretty good place to go. However, if you just want to get a good fundamental base, you might be better off with a lesser-regarded coach, especially one who has a good emphasis on teaching skills, or more time for each individual student.

It's similar to the tradeoff made by homeschooling; you may be a far less talented teacher, but because your attention isn't reduced by 29 other students per class, you might have a better outcome.

darius