New Team Events

[teacup]

Why not?

Sorry, I think you are right. I thought there could only be composites if the division doesn't have a team but I reread the rules and it doesn't state that.

If fencers fence in composite teams, are they allowed to fence for their clubs at Summer Nationals?

[hello?]

How difficult can it be to understand the concept that there is no "I" in the word TEAM?

Maybe no "I" in "Team," but an uppercase "US" in "US Fencing." : )

[Mr.MightyMouse]

I do think that scheduling is a large part of it, although there are other reasons of course. I have made numerous suggestions on this and the other thread (MS Team NAC D) as to how the USFA could have done a better job promoting team events at these two NACs. Do you have something to suggest also?

sorry for late reply - snow takes precedence.
after looking at entries I'm waving the white flag

[pillow]

sorry for late reply - snow takes precedence.
after looking at entries I'm waving the white flag

I must agree with you. However, this was a totally predictable outcome--as many of us posted.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

I must agree with you. However, this was a totally predictable outcome--as many of us posted.

It really took me by surprise
4 out of 6 events have team between Junior and D1 - so why the athletes participating in both would not fence team, or why any club in California would not enter in team event is beyond me.
Fast Eddie for example keep boastin' of his kids' NAC medals - so are they fencing the team event?
There also seems (to me) quite a rivalry in NorCal epee between GGFC, Halber, EastBay, CFA, etc., fencing team on Sunday for them would be logical, no?

[pillow]

It really took me by surprise
4 out of 6 events have team between Junior and D1 - so why the athletes participating in both would not fence team, or why any club in California would not enter in team event is beyond me.
Fast Eddie for example keep boastin' of his kids' NAC medals - so are they fencing the team event?
There also seems (to me) quite a rivalry in NorCal epee between GGFC, Halber, EastBay, CFA, etc., fencing team on Sunday for them would be logical, no?

To me, the issues are very simple, and have been posted here a number of times. To summarize:

1. No fencer I have spoken to is interested in getting tired doing a non-championship team event on the day between two individual points-events. Ever.

2. The complex NCAA compliance rules make it impossible to have any college varsity fencer fence a team event at a NAC without possibly violating NCAA rules. The USFA did not liason with the NCAA to clear this issue before expecting our top Juniors/Div I fencers to do a team event.

3. Perhaps the poor turnout for teams at NAC D will force cancellation of the team events, or at least a re-evaluation as to how to make team events work at the JOs, given the problems noted in #1 and #2 above.

4. Last, but not least, no fencer is going to pay for an extra night at the hotel to fence the team event on the first or last day of the NAC. And miss an extra day of school.

[teacup]

Teams may sign up but whether they actually fence the event could depend on the check in times for the team/individual events and how many teams sign up.

For example: If ME team has a 3:00 PM close of check in, there are 20 or more teams and the junior event has an 8:00 AM check in the next day, fencers may choose not to risk fencing if the event will go too late.

[fdad]

I think its hard enough to get an individual teenager to commit to be at an event 8 weeks ahead of the event (the week before mid-terms for many of them). To get 3 or 4 to agree to fence together on the same team 8 weeks out would be a major accomplishment (and result in a high probability that at least one will drop out).

The team events, like many USFA changes, have not been well publicized. My kid's coach was not aware of the elimination of reperchage or the addition of these events (and he is a well known coach of several olympians). It would be nice if the Athlete HAndbook got updated soon to reflect all of these changes.

I don't blame USFA for not being able to get a straight answer from the NCAA. But for the USFA to not have made a definitive statement yet (today is the registration deadline) about whether a fencer that competes on one of these non-club teams will be able to fence for their club during SN is not acceptable.

[pillow]

I think its hard enough to get an individual teenager to commit to be at an event 8 weeks ahead of the event (the week before mid-terms for many of them). To get 3 or 4 to agree to fence together on the same team 8 weeks out would be a major accomplishment (and result in a high probability that at least one will drop out).

The team events, like many USFA changes, have not been well publicized. My kid's coach was not aware of the elimination of reperchage or the addition of these events (and he is a well known coach of several olympians). It would be nice if the Athlete HAndbook got updated soon to reflect all of these changes.

I don't blame USFA for not being able to get a straight answer from the NCAA. But for the USFA to not have made a definitive statement yet (today is the registration deadline) about whether a fencer that competes on one of these non-club teams will be able to fence for their club during SN is not acceptable.

I see your point, but I really do not understand about the coach. Unless there is a language problem, I can think of no excuse for a reputable coach NOT to know about the elimination of repechage or the addition of team events. This is one instance where I will not blame the USFA. This is basic stuff that was on the USFA website, as well as in some of the email blasts I believe, and would also be common knowledge among other high level ( or low level) coaches with whom your coach should regularly communicate.

[oso97]

I see your point, but I really do not understand about the coach. Unless there is a language problem, I can think of no excuse for a reputable coach NOT to know about the elimination of repechage or the addition of team events. This is one instance where I will not blame the USFA. This is basic stuff that was on the USFA website, as well as in some of the email blasts I believe, and would also be common knowledge among other high level ( or low level) coaches with whom your coach should regularly communicate.

Gotta agree with this one. Its the job of a coach to be up to date on these kinds of things.

[pillow]

Now that we are 2 days after the deadline for NAC D, anyone know if there are enough teams registered to actually have a competition?

[dberke]

Now that we are 2 days after the deadline for NAC D, anyone know if there are enough teams registered to actually have a competition?

I emailed Ashley at the national office, and despite your proclimation that the team events are a total failure due to the low registrations, she confirmed that there are a lot of teams that (as usual) waited until the very last minute to register and that the list on the website is not nearly complete.

I'd wait until they update the confirmed registration list on Friday before getting too excited.

Dan

[pillow]

I emailed Ashley at the national office, and despite your proclimation that the team events are a total failure due to the low registrations, she confirmed that there are a lot of teams that (as usual) waited until the very last minute to register and that the list on the website is not nearly complete.

I'd wait until they update the confirmed registration list on Friday before getting too excited.

Dan

I can only go by what is on the website. If the updates are not revised in a timely fashion, so be it. Let's see what "a lot of teams" means.

[dberke]

I can only go by what is on the website. If the updates are not revised in a timely fashion, so be it. Let's see what "a lot of teams" means.

Yet you started posting about the low count before the deadline had even passed. That's jumping the gun a bit, don't you think? Especially when we all know it takes them upwards of a week to process all of the entries that come in at the last minute.

Dan

[pillow]

Yet you started posting about the low count before the deadline had even passed. That's jumping the gun a bit, don't you think? Especially when we all know it takes them upwards of a week to process all of the entries that come in at the last minute.

Dan

Contrary to what you may think, I would like to see the team events do well. Teams are, for most of us, the most exciting events in the sport. There is no doubt, as has been confirmed by other posters on this thread, that the schedule is rather difficult. I have proposed other approaches if needed. There is also the NCAA issue. If that has been resolved, and we have a good team turnout, then I have no problem. If by "a lot of teams," it is less than 15 per weapon for a national event, and our best college fencers will not fence due to NCAA problems, then I personally would not consider it a success. But I do stand corrected, and will not resume any more critical comments until the final roster of teams is posted.

[dberke]

Contrary to what you may think, I would like to see the team events do well. Teams are, for most of us, the most exciting events in the sport. There is no doubt, as has been confirmed by other posters on this thread, that the schedule is rather difficult. I have proposed other approaches if needed. There is also the NCAA issue. If that has been resolved, and we have a good team turnout, then I have no problem. If by "a lot of teams," it is less than 15 per weapon for a national event, and our best college fencers will not fence due to NCAA problems, then I personally would not consider it a success. But I do stand corrected, and will not resume any more critical comments until the final roster of teams is posted.

Also keep in mind that if the team events turn out to be poorly attended, the reasons you suggest (schedule, NCAA) are not necessarily why. There are plenty of other reasons that are equally as likely.

If the events are poorly attended, I hope the USFA investigates why so they can correct the problems for future events. To do that, they will need to cast a broad net when collecting data - relying on the opinions of people in a single division, or the posts on Fencing.net, is a statistically insiginificant sample and isn't very representative.

Let's wait and see what happens... we won't truly know how successful the events are until the NAC itself when we see which teams actually show up.

Dan

[teacup]

Apparently the school/college team does not have to be a registered club. Fencers can be from any division and since it is not a club, fencers can fence for their home clubs at Summer Nationals.

[fdad]

Apparently the school/college team does not have to be a registered club. Fencers can be from any division and since it is not a club, fencers can fence for their home clubs at Summer Nationals.

Are you saying this based on the NWU example? Because according to the *posted* (as opposed to those that will be enforced), there are two types of teams allowed: a) up to 3 from the same club and b) composites ("Fencers on composite teams must be from the same geographic USFA division"). There is nothing posted by USFA that allows non-USFA clubs or makes it clear whether or not fencers participating on a NAC team will be able to represent another club at SN.

[teacup]

Are you saying this based on the NWU example? Because according to the *posted* (as opposed to those that will be enforced), there are two types of teams allowed: a) up to 3 from the same club and b) composites ("Fencers on composite teams must be from the same geographic USFA division"). There is nothing posted by USFA that allows non-USFA clubs or makes it clear whether or not fencers participating on a NAC team will be able to represent another club at SN.

From an email from the USFA:

"Since there are composite teams allowed at these team events we are not requiring the teams to be club members.

Summer Nationals will require different rules."

(Unfortunately, though it was a fairly prompt replied, I received this email after the close of regular fee registration.)

[fdad]

I am confused how you derived this (emphasis added by me):

Apparently the school/college team does not have to be a registered club. Fencers can be from any division and since it is not a club, fencers can fence for their home clubs at Summer Nationals.

From this:

From an email from the USFA:

"Since there are composite teams allowed at these team events we are not requiring the teams to be club members.

Summer Nationals will require different rules."

(Unfortunately, though it was a fairly prompt replied, I received this email after the close of regular fee registration.)